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**chpthril** · 09-09-2008, 11:33 PM

**KonaKing** · 09-10-2008, 02:33 AM

sick

**KonaKing** · 09-10-2008, 02:34 AM

"Voting Democrate is easier then working"

Good one Chp

**dogbert** · 09-10-2008, 05:30 AM

That second one is just friggin' awesome!

**bentone** · 09-10-2008, 02:03 PM

I agree dtown, the skimming while drew is impressive, just doesnt do it for me, the wake surfing seems so much more aggressive. And I cannot believe a bunch of shuv variations would win the world wake surfing contest. Centurion should call it the world wake skimming contest. With them heading up the contest, it seems there is a little bias here. Look who is standing on the podium, pretty much all wakeskimmers. I couldnt understand why surfdad was so chapped over on ww, but now I see. Looks like James better get a skim board since this is the direction it seems to be heading.

**Surfdad** · 09-10-2008, 02:03 PM

That is such a raging argument. I think it is generally recognized that there are two distinct styles of riding. Surf and Skim. If you compare and contrast the two videos, recognizing that Chase and Johnny's video is professionally edited. Surf tends to be more aerially oriented and large hacks, where skim is more rotational and closer to the surface. Both have their fans and no doubt for as many folks that like Chase's 3 foot air, there are folks that like Drew's big spins.

**bentone** · 09-10-2008, 02:16 PM

that is why there should be two catagories, it doesnt seem fair to the wakesurfers, and I do agree, each to his own.

**Surfdad** · 09-10-2008, 02:52 PM

Hey bentone - I don't mean to attack you, it's just that, IMO, that wasn't the proper forum. It felt to me like you were raining on their parade and to be fully honest, on James accomplishment too. I'm sorry 'bro. The other issue is that of participation. There were only 4 surf style riders in the men's open. 2 of those 4 were from Inland Surfer. I like Mark and Lance, but I wouldn't call them competitors. Even if they weren't riding, they would be involved. So if you remove those two, that only leaves 2 surf style riders. If you think about it, that's not even enough to open a separate division. More importantly, there isn't enough participation to warrant that division at this time. I'm sorry to have to admit that fact, but when there are only two significant riders in a "style division" it isn't a pressing issue, IMO.

I gave them crap - probably more than I should have, but the judging was pretty fair, IMO. Going into the finals, James was in second place in total points and he was the only surf style rider...so, they sure seemed to be doing things correctly or at least making a HUGE effort to do things correctly. James run in the finals wasn't his best and he fell to fourth. Judy and I were talking and we both had him at 3rd or 4th after his run. The difference between 3rd and 4th was 0.75 out of 60'ish that the two riders had. Pretty damned close.

I wasn't pleased with Troy Mann being on the judging panel, as he is one of Drew's major sponsors, but they also used Chase and Jessica Oswald who are surf style riders to judge and the truth is I've done the same thing in selecting judges. It just really felt like they did a good job of judging fairly.

I don't know about the surf vs skim. It doesn't feel like the WWSC is doing much to cultivate surf style participation. At the same time, it doesn't feel like they are intentionally cultivating skim style riders, either. I think that had James had a run in the finals like his run in the semi's he would have placed second.

There is a nasty legacy that dates back to the prior administration of the WWSC and I think has some impact currently, even if it isn't appropriate. The surf style riders just don't feel it's a fair judging system. I'm not in favor of the mechanism used, but the end result seemed to me to reflect the quality of the rides in the finals.

Without some significant increased participation from the surf style folks, I think the surf vs skim is moot in that contest. I know that the argument is make the contest "fair" and they'll participate, but honestly, and I am probably the BIGGEST proponent of the split division, the judging was clean and the judges seemed to clearly understand the differences between the styles and difficulty involved.

**bentone** · 09-10-2008, 03:21 PM

no harm, no foul surfdad, I wasnt trying to shite on anybodies parade, it was just an observation. Like I said earlier, Drew on the skim board is insane to watch, but it just doesnt look like surfing. Dont you think there is a reason why more surf style riders didnt come. It seems like the same thing happened last year. Where was stieg, jamesz, mulcoy, sleigh? I am sure there are many more than I mentioned. Its just that it is called the world wakesurfing championship and there were only a couple of surf style riders. What do I know, I cant seem to get away from my strapped board. How about a strapped division?

**Surfdad** · 09-10-2008, 03:38 PM

I'd guess that there are a number of reasons. One is cost...it set me back almost 3,000 to attend that event for the three of us. I'm sure that some folks look at it with the idea of saying - what will I net if I take second? At most that's probably 1,000 bucks, less two days of work that's maybe 500 after taxes...third and lower and you're losing money. Economically it probably doesn't make sense for most on the west coast to attend.

Honestly, I've had a number of the big name ocean surfers with us behind the boat and they suck.

It's true!

They try these huge hacks and drift out the back. The styles are different, I grant you that, but it's not a simple ocean style vs skim style, it's more rotational vs non-rotational. Both behind the boat styles are hugely more technical than surfing in the ocean.

I don't know 'bro. I wish I had an easy answer, for now the folks at the WWSC are saying - where's the participation? It's really hard to argue - we need a separate division for these two guys

Actually we need a separate division for ME - I'll never make the podium the way those folks in the masters are riding.

I think had James had his run from the semi's in the finals it would have made folks look a little differently at the contest.

**bentone** · 09-10-2008, 04:00 PM

Its these big tricks and huge hacks that makes surfing what it is. They will be nailing these tricks soon. And I believe as wakesurfing/wakeskimming go down their seperate paths and becomes more popular as a sport, wwsc/centurion will have to recognize the difference between the two.

**Surfdad** · 09-10-2008, 04:18 PM

I had a good conversation with the organizer of that event. In the past, there has been a reluctance to split the divisions, but I don't think that's the case any longer. The current administration is just saying - it's REALLY hard to take something away from folks. If they took away $5,000 of prize money to give to surf style folks, they'd hear about that from the folks that ARE currently supporting the event. That doesn't make sense to them and while it wasn't said, I'm sure there is a reluctance to cower to demands being made by folks that don't participate. That sets an awful precedence for them. Principally what I heard in my discussions after the WWSC was - they'd split the divisions if there was prize money and participation. So...sponsors would have to cash up and participants would have to attend.

They currently recognize the two divisions where it doesn't cost them anything more - in the am's. I'm sure that if they told the skim style folks that they would be reducing the purse to give half to the surf style riders, that would NOT be met favorably.

James currently rides for TWP and I know that Mike doesn't have $10K to donate as prize money. Plus he'd never sell that many units to make it an effective advertising expenditure. I'd guess that it will take a group of surf style manufacturers to strap a set on and fund the prize dollars, as well as send their best riders...logically they'd sit down with the WWSC folks and negotiate that understanding up front. Without that, you probably won't see a split.

**dtown** · 09-11-2008, 05:11 PM

OK, I figured it out, I now know why I don't like skim style!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGFERyJ9xWg

My being unimpressed with skim style has to do with deep rooted childhood trama! That guy is spinning like a top... like a figure skater! When I was 13 my sister quit freestyle (moguls & areals) skiing and started figure skating... My parents forced me to go to my sisters figure skating competitions... I had to watch all those little girls in there Jon Bennet tutus twirling and spinning around!

Skim style also looks like what would happen to a Physh twirler if you slipped some speed into his bong.

haha - all good fun!

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Wake surf or wake skim?

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