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    I'm cutting and pasting a response that Larry Mann posted a year or so ago. Larry of Fresh Air Exhaust is, in my opinion, one of the leading authorities on CO posioning and wakesurfing. It would have been so easy for the
    reporter to get Larry's input, instead they find a few folks that are principally uninformed.

    The CO issue isn't a NON-concern, but we currently have a much better understanding of how to mitigate the risks. One OTHER reason folks shouldn't ride on the sun pad:

    http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/m...tml?1137633497

    Derby
    If you put a Carbon Monoxide (CO) alarm at the stern of the boat, outside, above the swim platform, it will be alerting constantly. If you put it inside, in front of the rear seat of either a direct drive or v-drive boat, it will seldom, if ever, alert.

    I will explain some of our findings to better elucidate the situation. If you are idling, the back seat (direct drive) or engine cover (v-drive) CO levels can reach in excess of 1000ppm in under a minute. Once you begin moving, the CO drops dramatically to mostly safe levels.

    On a direct drive boat, it’s as if there is a wall just above the transom. Behind the "wall" the CO levels are high, in front of the "wall", the levels are low. If you are traveling slowly, like in a no wake zone or wake surfing, a tailwind can push the CO further into the boat. Also, if someone is sitting in the rear seat, their torso and head can create an eddy current that draws the exhaust forward. Let's say a child is sitting in the rear seat of a fast moving boat, no problem. If the boat were slower, still likely no problem; but, if the child were to turn around and face the rear, an eddy current could form and pull exhaust and CO into their face.

    On a v-drive boat, a similar situation exists; but now we are talking about a person (with no life vest) sitting on the engine cover. As I stated previously on this thread, over the engine cover of a V-drive boat set-up for wake surfing, I have measured CO levels in excess of 500 ppm. This same boat had 180 ppm of CO inside the boat, in the back seat, at 17 mph (and this was a brand new boat).

    In both of the above scenarios, a CO meter mounted inside the boat would be unlikely to give any indication of what was happening to the person sitting in the rear of the boat.

    The worst conditions for CO for passengers in the boat:
    Slow (10 mph), engine under load (lots of ballast), heavy in the rear (a high bow creates more eddy current), people sitting in the rear at the lowest point, facing rearward. I just described wake surfing.

    So how dangerous is this really? There is one documented case I am aware of where a person sitting in the back seat of a boat, towing another boat, was dead from CO poisoning when they reached shore. One person (who now has Fresh Air Exhaust on his boat) had 2 girls rushed to the hospital with CO poisoning after a few hours of sitting in the rear of the boat watching wake surfing.

    A healthy person breathing the typical levels of CO in these scenarios will probably just feel ill and get a headache. Young children, the elderly, a pregnant woman’s unborn child, and anyone with heart or lung disease could suffer more harm.

    Larry Mann
    www.FreshAirExhaust.com
    Buy my kid's board! http://www.flyboywakesurf.com

    Comment


      Originally posted by Surfdad View Post
      They did interview a deputy online and he basically just said "if I had my way it wouldn't happen" the accident waiting to happen - very negative impression.

      Dog, THANKS! I think taking some action just feels better. Do you have a separate email add'y or just there "contact us" web form? I know I would love to encourage others to make your voices heard.
      I know. The e-mail I used to write to them was fox9inbox@foxtv.com. I did provide all my contact info as well as how to get in touch with Larry. Larry's got all the USCG studies about his device. It should satisfy anyone who's interested.

      zad, no disrespect, but the sideswipe doesn't help as much as you think. I don't know if anyone's had the opportunity to drive a boat down a lake with 6" of fog on the surface, but if you do, you'll know that the shape of the boat actually streams the air immediately behind the boat and into the same circulation as the exhaust coming from behind the boat. The problem is that while one side will be submerged, which is good, the other side will be exposed and that's the side you have to worry about.

      The FAE really is the best solution since it drives the exhaust down into the prop's wash, which surfaces well over a 100' behind the boat and is pretty well dispersed by then.
      Cursed by a fortune cookie: "Your principles mean more to you than any money or success."

      Comment


        Isn't it still true that NO ONE has ever died while wakesurfing? That is an unbeleivable fact, considering the volume of people doing it. People die on their way to work every day, or slip and fall in the tub...
        Be excellent to one another.

        Comment


          In fact, they admit that no one has been injured while wakesurfing. Just another state where people want to regulate how much fun you can have.
          Cursed by a fortune cookie: "Your principles mean more to you than any money or success."

          Comment


            Just one additional comment on the sideswipe. We were out on an Avy with installed side swipe and when we would change sides, the driver pretty typically would forget to switch the outlet, so they would typically either leave the exhaust on one side, OR vent it in to the water on the side being ridden - of course right into the path of the rider! The FAE is a no-brainer, doesn't matter which side you ride and there isn't any driver interaction required! My favorite
            Buy my kid's board! http://www.flyboywakesurf.com

            Comment


              Surfdad do you have an FAE? I thought I remember you saying you didn't in another thread a while back.. but I must be wrong..
              If you ain't falling.. you ain't trying hard enough..

              Comment


                The more I hear about this and I smell the fumes in back of my boat when I am behind it, the more I am considering an FAE upgrade this boating off season. We are starting to have more wakesurfing requests (thanks to surfdad ) from the children and the GF. I am also wanting to wakesurf more also and see a needed benefit for a FAE now more than before.

                Comment


                  All I can say is.. "Wow".. I just watched the news report w/ the sheriff they interviewed. My favorite part of the video was the "a propeller is like a knife and it will cut you".. I'd like to see someone try and fall into the prop on an inboard. Not only would you have to fall under 3' of swim step and 1' or so of transom.. but you would also have to not only overcome the force of the water as the boat is driving away from you, but also the force of the propwash which is pushing you away from the prop. I would venture to say that there is absolutely NO POSSIBLE WAY to fall into the prop while wakesurfing behind an inboard.
                  If you ain't falling.. you ain't trying hard enough..

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by da.bell View Post
                    The more I hear about this and I smell the fumes in back of my boat when I am behind it, the more I am considering an FAE upgrade this boating off season. We are starting to have more wakesurfing requests (thanks to surfdad ) from the children and the GF. I am also wanting to wakesurf more also and see a needed benefit for a FAE now more than before.
                    da we installed our FAE on our boat a few weeks ago and let me tell you, it makes a huge difference. The V-drive boats produce a lot of exhaust smell on the sunpad/backseat area (even when not wakesurfing) and once we installed it.. shoot I can't even remember what the exhaust smells like! I would say definitely get one! Especially if you have been bitten by the wakesurf bug. It will also give you an argument if some sheriff or ranger tries to give you trouble for it.
                    If you ain't falling.. you ain't trying hard enough..

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by wakeboarder247 View Post
                      All I can say is.. "Wow".. I just watched the news report w/ the sheriff they interviewed. My favorite part of the video was the "a propeller is like a knife and it will cut you".. I'd like to see someone try and fall into the prop on an inboard. Not only would you have to fall under 3' of swim step and 1' or so of transom.. but you would also have to not only overcome the force of the water as the boat is driving away from you, but also the force of the propwash which is pushing you away from the prop. I would venture to say that there is absolutely NO POSSIBLE WAY to fall into the prop while wakesurfing behind an inboard.
                      The problem with wakesurfing is ignorance. Barney Fife knows nothing about it.........so it must be bad, lets outlaw it.
                      Mikes Liquid Audio: Knowledge Experience Customer Service you can trust-KICKER WetSounds ACME props FlyHigh Custom Ballast Clarion LiquidLumens LEDs Roswell Wave Deflector And More

                      Comment


                        247, we've had FAE installed for about 3 years now. I never experienced any CO issues before the install, but prefer safe than sorry. I can remember reading some of the CDC studies and for the most part, I "think" that the CO levels where the rider is, while wakesurfing, are pretty minimal. Not even as much as in the air in a large metro area. The bigger risk was due to the "station wagon effect".

                        Like chpthril points out, the initial reaction due to ignorance is to say NO rather than get the facts.
                        Buy my kid's board! http://www.flyboywakesurf.com

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by da.bell View Post
                          The more I hear about this and I smell the fumes in back of my boat when I am behind it, the more I am considering an FAE upgrade this boating off season. We are starting to have more wakesurfing requests (thanks to surfdad ) from the children and the GF. I am also wanting to wakesurf more also and see a needed benefit for a FAE now more than before.
                          Why wait? It's like a 1.5 hr install process. It's really easy, even for the mechanically challenged
                          Cursed by a fortune cookie: "Your principles mean more to you than any money or success."

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by dogbert View Post
                            Why wait? It's like a 1.5 hr install process. It's really easy, even for the mechanically challenged
                            You have a point that it does not take a lot of time for the install and I am sure it will help. Right now, we are trying to refi the house so we are saving every time we can and then afterwards, we will be able to do a few things to the boat. :ro

                            Comment


                              Cursed by a fortune cookie: "Your principles mean more to you than any money or success."

                              Comment


                                http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4831http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4831

                                Whole other thread about it.
                                Reality is only an illusion that occurs due to a lack of alcohol.

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