Surf vs Skim

[NICKYPOO]

I can't imagine how frustrated Surfdad is....

Fully. Just one more reason to tell the winers to sack up and ride.

[Surfdad]

The overwhelming response I got was to split the divisions. I was fortunate to have a talk with Jaime Lovett - pro skimmer and Josh Sleigh, former pro surfer and each told me that there are a number of pro surfers that would enter but recognize the disadvantage to them because a skimmer can throw 8 shuv's in the time it takes a surfer to wind up and throw a one 2 foot air. So...I'm confortable with the split in divisions, just not the execution of it just yet. Plus, my next goal is to open a longboard division.

We travel to a bunch of contests and it's rather...uuummm, disappointing to spend 6 hours waiting for a 2 minute ride. If we can open up more division, not only does it make judging easier, but we can help the organizer cover more of their costs, encourage folks to invest in unique boards for each division, hopefully positively affecting our sponsors net income and allowing participants more time to ride AND expand their own abilities by seeing skim, surf and longboard styles.

Let me go back and finish reading all of the posts now Thanks to all for your input.

[Surfdad]

Thanks for the well thought out response 247. I think that the final rules are going to need to consider a few things. One is wake size and shape. The skimmers all prefer a slightly smaller wake and slower speed. By splitting the divisions we can accomodate this. If we wanted to be "unfair" we could pull the contest at 14 mph with a steep massive wake and the skimmers would spend their whole run just pumping So, splitting the divisions really will allow us to provide the best environment for both styles.

The equipment governance will be hard, but...I think that this will just have to be a component of the final regulations. As 247 points out "good luck" with enforcing it. Probably a quick flash to the judges before entering the water.

I also think that we are going to need to split the divisions based upon ability, so I am not quite sure how these myriad of choices will fit together into a manageable event.

Can I quit now?

[wakeboarder247]

No problem! It was the least I could do to try and give you a different perspective since you are obviously already in too deep! and getting deeper it seems! lol

[NICKYPOO]

Yes you may, Jeff. I don't envy your possision, but I'm happy to play along. I know I sound a bit negative towards the split, but it's just an outside (way outside) opinion. I've never so much as even attended a comp, much less competed in one so I'm just as full of as anyone, if not more so.

An equipment restriction is going to require some stiff governing, but I think that's the way to go. The two division have the potential to throw the same tricks and I would hate to see runs limited to only certain tricks. Plus with the advent of a longboard division, you are already creating a class based on the board itself. A class I happen to think would be awesome.

Now if I can just get you to start that DRAG RACING division.

[Surfdad]

Nick I appreciate your input, it easy to get so wrapped up in the "trees" that I can't see the forest, so I appreciate fresh presepectives...plus, what is that old saying: the best way to assure failure is to try and please everyone. At least I know I'm not doing that!

This is the proposed rule change, please be gentle

Should an organizer which to create style divisions, the following rules shall apply:

It is the intent of the AWSA to sanction events that provide for the greatest representation of riders and to foster the controlled growth of the sport of wakesurfing. Towards that end, three significant styles and associated equipment are currently recognized within the discipline. As of April 2007, these are:

1) Surf style
2) Skim style
3) Longboard style

Notwithstanding anything in these rules, the chief judge has the authority to disqualify or reassign any equipment that, in his sole judgment, is inconsistent with the intent of representation of a specific style. It is expressly understood that reassignment is the preferred choice in this situation and that disqualification of equipment is a last resort.

In each style division the equipment will qualify for inclusion if it meets all but one of the criteria. That is to say 2 of 3 criteria or 4 of 5 criteria. However, the exception can only be to the length and thickness criteria, none of the fin specific restrictions are available for exception.

Equipment restrictions by style

A) Surf Style
1) Length 5'0" or longer
2) Thickness 1" or thicker
3) Fin requirements
a) Depth 3" or deeper
b) 2 or more on at least one end
c) 3" or more separation between fins

B) Skim Style
1) Length shorter than 5'0"
2) Thickness less than 1"
3) Fin requirement
a) Depth less than 3"
b) No more than 1 fin per end

C) Longboard Style
1) Length 8'0" or longer
2) Thickness 2" or thicker
3) Fin requirements
a) at least 1 fin that is 5" or deeper.

[Surfdad]

Hey Nick, why is it that you have a HUGE member and I am relegated to a Junior member - I want to file a protest!

[wakeboarder247]

Those look pretty good to me! I am fresh out of recommendations. Now the true tell will be running the first event that adheres to those rules and see how it goes! Does it feel good to at least have a somewhat solid set of rules? I think the addition of the longboard style is a big help to differentiate surf vs. skim. Great job!

[NICKYPOO]

Hey Nick, why is it that you have a HUGE member and I am relegated to a Junior member - I want to file a protest!

You should at least be a Senior Member. Do they give a senior citizen discount on Viagra? No, I guess they wouldn't would they?

Moving on...

So my Walzer would fall into the skim cat. even though it's a twin right? That is where it should be IMO.

[sagmanaur]

Wow, this is a thread that took off in 1 day......

My .02

1. How is this handled in ocean surfing contests, or are those boards all pretty much the same?

2. Are we losing focus of surfing.... FUN!!!!

3. Ride what you bring, there are so many boards now, just think about what will be out there 5 years from now. It will be virtually impossible to classify the boards because there are so many variations. It would be like trying to classify tennis shoes... is it a basketball shoe, or a cross trainer????

and the thread keeps going.............................

[Surfdad]

Hey Nick, your Walzer would, in fact, fall into the skim style class.

Oh Sag-man,

You haven't been to one of these contests, yet, have you? Some of these folks BLEED winning a contest. If you can imagine we had Tommy Czeschin competing - he's a member of the US Olympic snowboard team!!!!! These folks were serious. I talked with a guy from CC when they were water testing a boat - Mr. Czeschin was picking up a CC from the factory after the contest.

Additional folks included virtually every member of the Victoria skimboard team. Pro surfers Gavin Sutherland and Johnny Steig and pro skimmer Jaime Lovett. We had a laundry list of professional riders and trust me, it wasn't about having fun once they were on the water.

In the ocean, the skim and surf are different contests. Mostly because of the environment. It would be difficult to paddle a skimboard out and also to catch a wave. Because of the environment, they have developed into separate sports. With the boat and a rope, both boards can ride the same wake. However, the styles are very unique and that is what is causing the issues from a contest standpoint.

I think that we have general acceptance of the division split. I'm feeling very confident about that, now. I'm also glad that we have folks trying to beat the system. Those folks, solidify the rules and make "me" think harder about creating an environment that is fair and equal.

Next issue is defining pro riders

[Surfdad]

Tommy's olympic profile:

http://www.usoc.org/26_710.htm

[NICKYPOO]

Hey Nick, your Walzer would, in fact, fall into the skim style class.

What about a 5'6" Comp X w/ 3" fins?

Next issue is defining pro riders

DOH!

[Surfdad]

Hey Nick...I'm guessing that you meant a 5'0" Composite X - Mike isn't currently offering a 5'6"...anyway, this is a great question and I think what I will do with the rules is create a table that allows you to find your board and it's classification.

The rules, as outlined above, allow the rider 1 deviation from the criteria in either the length or thickness areas. The 5'0" is considered met at the 5'0" designation. Currently the Composite X is right at 1" and so would meet that criteria. If the board had 3" fins, it would meet all criteria for surf style.

I think I will start a new thread on the definition of a "pro"