Help going ropeless!

[jdk20111]

We have a 2006 Tige 22v. I have a bow sac that holds 650lbs and i have an Enzo sack in the rear locker with 1100lbs ish. The wave looks good as far as i can tell. I have seen people surf much crappier looking waves, but I for the life of me cannot go ropeless. I am 6'4 and 220 lbs. I am riding a hyperlite broadcast 5'4. i have my knees over my toes, i am doing the superman trying to touch the wave all that. I have rode about every type of board sport there is, i dont feel like its my technique. I am leaning so far forward that i have a tendency to dunk the nose and biff. It seems the only place i can get enough speed is 2 inches off the swim deck. I have a feeling its the board, maybe its not big enough for me? Please help! I am going to powell in a week and need to make this happen!

I am running the taps all the way down as the wave seems to steep without it. Speed is right around 11 to 11.5

Here is another

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ1Y...ature=youtu.be

[robert theisen]

It's not the board. Once you get your technique down you can surf any board. Another board made for your size could help but it would be a intermediate to advanced board. The surf style boards have more drive and stability. It's harder to learn from scratch on a skim style. It's looser and doesn't have as much forward drive. If you send us a video of you surfing we can analyze your technique and point out some minor tweaks. Usually it's just a manner of inches difference. One thing I point out to new surfers is to shift your hips forward to go faster and backwards to slow down. This is opposed to weighting your front foot and weighting your back foot.

[IDBoating]

Agree, post a video including your feet position on the board.

But until then: One of the big pieces of the puzzle for a lot of folks we teach is having your feet close enough to the toe edge of the board. You start with your heels at the heel edge so you can bring the board vertical, so it's awkward to move them, but the difference in control and stability is remarkable. If you are surfing toe-side toward the wave ("facing" the wave), you need to be able to apply enough toeside pressure and you won't be able to do that unless your feet are toward the toeside.

Try this... once you're up, KEEP THE ROPE and toe-walk your front foot straight across the board so that your toes are within 1-2 inches of the toe edge of the board. KEEP THE ROPE and just feel the difference in the board's behavior. After you've gotten used to that, try varying your toe and heel pressure and see how that affects the board's position behind the boat.

To control your distance to the boat, do as Theisen recommended above and shift your hips very slightly. Do not think of "putting more weight on one foot". Keep your pelvis level and "shift" your pelvis forward or backward, as if it was sliding horizontally on ball bearings. It helps to practice this on the sun deck or swim deck before jumping in. Small movements make a big difference, and having your toes near the toe edge will amplify the effect of your movements. (I could explain why, but for now just try it.)

Eventually, I predict that you will be able to keep the rope slack while maintaining a fixed distance behind the boat... and then you can DROP the rope (just open your fingers and let it fall, don't throw it because it will throw off your balance) and keep holding that distance. From there it's just practice.

PS: You can throw the now-slack rope once you're solid. At first, just gently open your fingers, let it fall, and let someone in the boat deal with it.

Hope this helps... report back!

[Z3CO23]

The wave in your video looks great. Something I struggled with is riding *across the wave and not *down the wave. I still struggle with that sometimes. It seemed so counter intuitive to me that you would ride across the wave and it seemed like I would be riding away from the "push." My problem was that I was getting so much toe pressure that I wasn't allowing the board to orient correctly in the direction it needed to be. I would continually be driven up the face of the wave, lose the pocket and out the back I went. Hope this helps some, it's has helped me.

[jdk20111]

First off, thanks for all the replies. I will try these techniques and post a vid. I had to pull the boat off last night due to a fuel pump issue but hope to have it resolved soon. So would it be much easier for a guy my size to go ropeless with a bigger surf style board like say a Hyperlite Landlock 5'9"?

[IDBoating]

A bigger board might help in the short term, but once you "get it" a too-large board will hold you back. Give your current board a little bit more time.

[IDBoating]

The wave in your video looks great. Something I struggled with is riding *across the wave and not *down the wave. I still struggle with that sometimes. It seemed so counter intuitive to me that you would ride across the wave and it seemed like I would be riding away from the "push."

Think of it like traversing a hill when skiing. You COULD go "straight down", but that's not usually what you want. So you change the angle a bit to lessen the steepness while still using gravity to pull you down the hill. Now you're going "across" the hill, still "down" but also somewhat "across" as you said.

Now shift in your mind to snowboarding, which is even more like surfing because your feet are "sideways" to your primary axis of motion (forward). You could still go straight down the hill (wave), but you'd probably rather not go that fast, so you angle yourself *across* the hill (wave) so that you're still going downhill (powered by gravity) but using friction/drag to control your speed and direction.

Remember, just like skiing and snowboarding, the two forces involved in surfing are 1) gravity and 2) friction, aka drag. There is no "push" force, though that is a convenient and perfectly acceptable way to describe what you feel. The wave is an angled hill. Gravity wants to pull you "down" the hill. Drag wants to pull you "up" the hill. Your goal is to balance those two forces so that you can hold your position on the face of the wave. More gravity (i.e. less drag) and you go down/forward; more drag (i.e. less effect from gravity) and you go up/backward.

Eventually you will get to the point where you intentionally let gravity have more effect, or drag have more effect, to move around on the wave. Other moves, such as "pumping" and creative use of edging, can also move you around. But right now, focus on the core of the sport: The balance between gravity and drag. You are in control of that balance. Once you "get it", you'll be able to hold a fixed distance from the boat without the rope because you will be balancing gravity's desire to pull you down/forward and drag's desire to pull you up/backward. You'll be surfing, and you'll feel like a million bucks!

[D&P Powell]

Although I'm not the original poster, I have had the same struggles (especially getting too close to the swim deck). Thanks for the descriptive advice WABoating.

[Z3CO23]

Think of it like traversing a hill when skiing. You COULD go "straight down", but that's not usually what you want. So you change the angle a bit to lessen the steepness while still using gravity to pull you down the hill. Now you're going "across" the hill, still "down" but also somewhat "across" as you said.

Now shift in your mind to snowboarding, which is even more like surfing because your feet are "sideways" to your primary axis of motion (forward). You could still go straight down the hill (wave), but you'd probably rather not go that fast, so you angle yourself *across* the hill (wave) so that you're still going downhill (powered by gravity) but using friction/drag to control your speed and direction.

Remember, just like skiing and snowboarding, the two forces involved in surfing are 1) gravity and 2) friction, aka drag. There is no "push" force, though that is a convenient and perfectly acceptable way to describe what you feel. The wave is an angled hill. Gravity wants to pull you "down" the hill. Drag wants to pull you "up" the hill. Your goal is to balance those two forces so that you can hold your position on the face of the wave. More gravity (i.e. less drag) and you go down/forward; more drag (i.e. less effect from gravity) and you go up/backward.

Eventually you will get to the point where you intentionally let gravity have more effect, or drag have more effect, to move around on the wave. Other moves, such as "pumping" and creative use of edging, can also move you around. But right now, focus on the core of the sport: The balance between gravity and drag. You are in control of that balance. Once you "get it", you'll be able to hold a fixed distance from the boat without the rope because you will be balancing gravity's desire to pull you down/forward and drag's desire to pull you up/backward. You'll be surfing, and you'll feel like a million bucks!

That's a really good way of explaining it. I weigh in at about 260 and I'm riding a Koal Fish 5.0 right now. Riding a bigger board would definitely help I think but I also think it's kind of the easy way out. I've seen bigger guys rip on smaller boards, which is obviously all about technique. I've actually been able to free ride our 4.8 broadcast but there's no room for error at my size on that thing. Surfing is the greatest thing and I'm learning as I go. Easy to get frustrated though.

[chpthril]

My opinion seems to differ from the rest, in that ai do think its the board and a bigger one is not the answer. The broadcast is an easy board to pop up on and learn balance, but i think the 5.4 is slow, making it hard to go slack rope. I think a smaller and or faster board would make a huge difference. Faster as in a board thats a semi-custom or custom shape as opposed to the broadcast thats a more mainstream mass produced shape.

I would also say slow down to 10.5-10.8 for beginners and slow boards. 11.5 is kinda fast.

[JohnnieMo]

Wow. Such great advice on this thread. Where were you guys a year ago!!??

I struggled all of last season.... only rarely tossing the rope. I had a couple issues with my boat (wrong Vx brackets and not enough ballast) but at 260 I still couldn't do it. The best advice I got was from Travism about a month ago.

He told me to stay in tight to the platform, almost touching it. The mistake is to think "I got this amazing boat and huge ballast so I should be like 20 feet back". Truth is that takes skill. So start up close. Learn the balance between gravity and drag. When you start to "get it" you will naturally be able to drift back a ways and recover. As cliche as it sounds, it is like learning to ride a bike.

I had the most fun surfing ever this past week and it's because I finally 'got it' like everyone is saying. My board is a 5 year old Koal Fish 5'6".

Stay away from the skim to start. I have a Trident I still don't love because it is too slippery.

Take this advice with a grain of salt because I'm like mere inches ahead of you on the learning curve. I intend to take all this other advice also. I just wanted you to know you ain't alone!

Sent from my Passport

[robert theisen]

The skim boards are like light weight narrow track and wheel base cars. They are very responsive to small inputs. So for a beginner it's harder to get through the learning curve. If you were to change boards try a hybrid or a surf style as it won't be so sensitive to small inputs.

[dakota4ce]

I will toss in my $.02. I have surfed all of 25 runs now...maybe 30. My wave is (I think) quite large--my boat and ballast are carbon copies of Ragboy's 24Ve. I had some friends ride this weekend, one owns a G23 the other owns a 2014 X30 with Gen2. Both raised their eyebrows at my wave, so that validated to me that it is more than adequate.

I have an inland surfer Red Rocket, a ShredStixx Headband (similar to old JaMako as I understand), and a Liquid Force Fish 5.6.

Guess what? The only one I can ride ropeless is the Red Rocket. And I can ride it ropeless effortlessly. Way back, up front, recoveries from way back, slashing up and down the wave. It is a freaking riot. I guess I cannot speak for the Fish so much, I just know that that board is noted to be slow as a turtle, so it just sits a lot so far.

Guess what else? I cannot for the life of me, in maybe 8 attempts, go wireless with the Headband. I DONT KNOW WHY. It is supposed to be "fast". Its supposed to be able to handle a big ape like me. But, I cannot make it work. It has huge fins, which makes me think there is too much drag? I don't know, I think I have a good feel for transferring weight and controlling the board. It just won't happen--yet anyway Even then, it seems like I will have to pump like mad to keep up.

Anyway, my point is this: the Red Rocket is noted to be a "fast down the line" board. It has twin 9cm fins on it. You will need a fast board to really get what you are looking for. Once I got that board, the whole game changed. I get it. It is fun. The dang board was $700, but damn worth every penny. I am 6'4" and 223#. Roughly similar to you.

I surf at 10.8-11.2 so far in my young career. Take Chpthrils advice.

Most of all, good luck and it will come!

[dakota4ce]

I would also say this--have taps at 3-4 if you can stand it? Any others have inputs here? My wave seems to be much stronger that way. Also ensure water depth is adequate! I can tell from back on the wave the second it gets under 15'.

[jdk20111]

I went out and bought a nice board from the shop here in town and guess what??

This video is in the afternoon when the water was very choppy. We had some rain go through and drive everyone off the lake, but then the sun came back out and it was beautiful and calm. My rides later in the night were even better and i even started to do some carving. I also got my brother up and ropeless!

Apologies for the shaky vid, my 7 year old son was recording while my wife drove. What a HUGE difference the new board makes! When I bought it, the first thing I noticed is that its half the weight of the Broadcast. When I got up on it I could immediately tell it was much faster. So in the end, it wasn't so much about my technique or the wave, it was mostly about the board. Its extremely hard to find the right technique if the board is working against you. I was able to reduce the speed to 10.5ish and go ropeless on my first try with this board. Its a Liquid Force Machine 5'2. Very happy with the purchase. I think the biggest factors that affected me going ropeless was the weight and shape. That thruster tail seemed to do much better. All of the advice on technique you guys gave me was right, I just couldnt get the board to do it. Maybe better riders can do it but for a beginner, you dont want to be fighting the equipment when you are trying to learn. Thanks again to to everyone that helped and I'll post a few pictures from Lake Powell here in a few weeks when i get back.

liquidforce-machine-wksrf-5ft2in-15.jpg