Wakesurf Board Makers

[zroutt]

Board looks big. And they are working hard to keep it in pocket. Or maybe that is just the wave

I thought the same thing watching that video. They are grom riders who rip in the ocean so I see a number of factors involved here.

1. Board looks big: They are small grommets riding boards designed for bigger riders.
2. Wave looks real flat. Doesn't look to stand up and provide any surf force at all making these ocean riders work extra hard like a SoCal mushburger of a wave.
3. Ocean surfers: Kind of a repeat but for this point it is worth noting that in my experience coming as an ocean surfer now landlocked in South Dakota, that I tend to pump and really work the wave.

[Chaos]

There are a lot of factors here. Could be the boards, could be the riding style, the 'wave/wake' is definitely not good or set up well. In fact this is really embarrassing for Mastercraft. Yet another foible in their reorganization, from questionable decision for their pro wakeboard tour, to bringing out a price point boat. They have had the opportunity to work with people that actually wakesurf and know how to set up a boat, but they decide to work with people that have no idea how to produce a good wave. In these videos they are doing a typical surf thing, and that is moving too fast without the boat weighted properly.

Now as far as the riders, they are riding like surfers. This is how performance surfers ride. Lots of pumping, short bottom turns that set up the full bottom turn (artifact of typical thruster and quad set ups), driving down the line. I dig this style. This is where I think competitive wakesurfing should be moving, not toward skim moves and skim tricks, or standing there all stiff and upright like there is a board up your a$$. Just my opinion.

[Duncan]

Now as far as the riders, they are riding like surfers. This is how performance surfers ride. Lots of pumping, short bottom turns that set up the full bottom turn (artifact of typical thruster and quad set ups), driving down the line. I dig this style. This is where I think competitive wakesurfing should be moving, not toward skim moves and skim tricks, or standing there all stiff and upright like there is a board up your a$$. Just my opinion.

Agreed re aggressive slashing style. We all ride glass surf-style boards behind our 2009 RZ2 and there is no standing around

I was actually referring to the mechanics -- for all that pumping and motion, they were simply not generating much speed. As I alluded to in my post, I blame that on the wave (and partially board choice).

[Surfdad]

...I dig this style. This is where I think competitive wakesurfing should be moving, not toward skim moves and skim tricks, or standing there all stiff and upright like there is a board up your a$$. Just my opinion.

That's funny as hell. I am in agreement with the misguided path of surf style competitive wakesurfing. Way back in the day, before we had a split in the divisions, everyone was just dumped into a single division. The scoring was a little funny also, in that riders were given "value" fro trying tricks, even if they didn't land them. Anyway, as expected skimmers always won. That sort of evolved into ya gotta actually land the trick for it to count and the eventual split in the divisions WITH definitions as to what that meant. The first try, which failed miserably was equipment definitions - so many fins, of so much depth, etc but Jaime Lovett just did his same run in both skim and surf and won both divisions at the ill fated Spring Fling on Lake Tulloch. Then, the divisions were sort of defined by HOW you rode, rather than equipment...much like you suggest Nick, ride like it's a damn surfboard, that's not rocket science! Right? Currently there are no definitions at all. So technically, there's nothing to prevent one of the top skimmers from taking his skim board in and cleaning everyone's clock. There really isn't a separate division, if it's never defined, it's just a title and sort of a: see we spit the divisions so shut up! But, it's really meaningless if it isn't clearly identified and gets more so as time goes on. To me, I'm really ok with the various styles that are out there, pumping all crazy, board up your *** stiff, shuv is the only thing that matters...but we need some unbiased way of defining that and comparing it. Right now everyone, to be competitive, has to do what the judges are biased towards rather than developing their own unique style. Nor does competitive wakesurfing make an effort to allow various wakesurf styles. It's certainly devolving into the messes we had back at the beginning and the Lack Tulloch debacle. Nick, I gotta tell ya, I want to use that definition! The board up your *** division, the pump like a fool division and the shuv only division.

[Chaos]

There is no real solution. It is all about control. You either attempt to control and dictate 'style' or you let it go organic. Control has always been the approach by setting guidelines and expectations.

Either way, wake surfing or wake skimming needs to develop its own identity. It is not surfing, that is just marketing crap. It will never garner true respect until it has broken free. For most people I run the numbers for them, both participants and revenue. But, I do not feel like doing that here and you do not need me to. Wake surfing is negligible in number of participants and revenue, compared to surfing.

One key aspect, is the board is the heart of the surfing industry (although it is the bottom of the totem pole for revenue), however for wakesurfing the watercraft seems to be the heart.

[NICKYPOO]

Damn, a real conversation and I missed it.

Just to throw $.02 in the ring, I'd love to see what LibTech comes out with. They've always produced some "way out in left field" type products. Last I saw anything on them they were doing some "green" manufacturing with all sorts of exotic, top secret type stuff. That was a few years ago though. I would imagine that stuff has been on the market for while now.

...and it has. http://www.lib-tech.com/surfing/technology/

I'd be interested in your thoughts on LibTech, Nick.

Interesting question, how many FlyBoy knock offs are out there? Off the top of my head I can think of; Soulcraft, Doomswell, technically Walker? Not that there is anything wrong with that. Its surfboard shaping and designs will always be copied. It's just the nature of the biz.

[Chaos]

I think LibTech makes good products. Green is open to debate. What is green? what does it mean? I am not going to go through the details of toxicity/ecotoxicity, renewable resource, carbon consumption, etc.
Simple facts are 'green' is nothing but marketing, greenwashing if you will. Every product has its pluses and minuses. Bamboo is not really a renewable resource, and in fact due to its popularity, plantations of monocultural plantings are springing up through out the tropics displacing native species. Bamboo processing, whether for wood product or fiber for fabrics requires a lot of solvents and water, the end result of which is contaminated water/waste and the consumption of a significant amount of resources. Popular eco-based epoxy resins, still use polyamide hardeners. The hardener is the reactive component, the toxic component. Lib Tech, pokes at the green concept by through the use of products that are for the most part not derived from petroleum streams. Our world is driven by petroleum products one way or another. They additional work towards that green moniker by producing a product that is considered resilient, not a typical throw away consumable product. Libtech is smart, they say 'environmentally nicer', much like Patagonia. They recognize that no product is or product development process is without impact, whether direct or secondary/tertiary.
Does it matter, oh probably not.

The downside of libtech's process is it does not allow for customization. So, you are in the circle of one size fits all. Most account for this by offering a range of sizes in set models, and that fills a market need.

Yes, lots of copies of lots of boards out there.

[NICKYPOO]

Thanks for your reply, Nick. It's great to hear a professional opinion from someone who has the knowledge and experience to back it up.

Sort of off topic but, I was down in San Clemente a while back, hanging out with Kyle Gardella. He was talking about going over to Hawaii in the 60s and saw, for the first time, a swallow tail board. When he got back to Cali, he made one of his own. About a year later, the guy who shaped the one he saw in Hawaii was in San Clemente. He saw Gardella's swallow tail and wanted to fight. "You stole my shape!"

I'd be willing to bet the copying surfboard shapes and constructions have been around as long as the surfboard itself. You could probably argue that all the way back to early man. I think it's called evolution. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right?

[Chaos]

Ben Aipa is largely recognized as bringing the swallow tail to the surfing world. I am sure he may have fought more than one battle over the design.

[NICKYPOO]

I believe that name was tossed out in this well versed, told it a hundred times before but nobody ever listens type story. It took a couple beers and a rack of ribs to get through it but, we did. Ends up with him making one and then someone copied it. I certainly couldn't say with any certainty what name was said. There were many more beers after that. Exact details are a bit fuzzy.

Perhaps its better that way.

[Duncan]

There will be a new one soon. My brother in law works for a surfboard manufacturer in California and they are starting to prototype a wakesurf board. Given our boat and its wake, there's a good chance we'll have one of those to play with. They are actually an exotic materials manufacturer that found surfboards were a good application for their product, and they see wakesurfing as another option for expansion. I'll report what I can, when I can (while honoring confidentiality, of course).

any updates?

[IDBoating]

Nothing to me, yet. Apparently they do have boards (demos/development) but nothing they're willing to ship to me. With our season winding down it may be next year before I actually see something.

[mdk681]

Walker Project

[st68]

Keep them coming... Wake Mojo has just launched and it is everything Wakesurf... our goal is to cover all makers relating to wakesurfing, boats, boards and gear

[Duncan]

Walker Project

My wife absolutely loves her Walker Project F-18.