Difference in tail shapes for Wakesurf boards

[Timmy!]

There are a lot of variations on the tail shape of Wakesurf boards and I'm sure they each have their purpose but the one that I really like the look of doesn't seem to be too popular and that is the pintail. So I tried to draw up a pintail wakesurfer and now I see why there aren't many around, it's hard to make it look right in a 4'10" or shorter length with a 20" width. It really needs to be long and narrow to get the shape to look good. Skimboards are sort of a pintail I guess but the width seems to wide to me to consider it a pintail. The reason I was interested in the pintail is I love the hard cuts that the pro surfer's do and would love to be able to do that behind the boat.

What are the advantages of the different tails? For wakesurfers we have flat back (don't know the real term), the one where it comes in on the sides right before the tail (like the flyboy) a swallow tail, a fish and then Inland has the swallow tail with the bottom carved out of it. Since I am thinking about building my own board, I am trying to arm myself with as much information as I can before deciding on a shape.

What say the experts? Can you help educate me?

[Timmy!]

Looks like the flat back is a squash tail?

[wakemitch]

One thing is that sometimes you have to forget about what you want something to look like. Grindwater boards looked cool, but they rode like garbage. And a lot of that was because of their tail shape too.

Wakesurf boards tend to be <5' so if they were to have the same scaled down dimensions of an ocean pin tail, there would not be enough surface area to go fast enough (this is a very rough and poor explanation). The widest part of the board is where you get the push. If you look back at Shred Stixx's evolution of shapes over the years since 1999 you will see how the widest part slowly moved back as the boards got shorter. This was necessary for how wakesurf boards are ridden. 5'+ boards are limiting behind a boat. Also the wider tails allow for more pop because of the increased surface area.

Pin tails are designed to sink in the water to provide stability, but that extra stability isnt needed in wakesurf boards and just ends up slowing down the rider. I tend to think that pin tails will gradually disappear from skim style wakesurf boards as well. Ocean skims use pin tails because they need the extra grip while riding the face of a wave, but in wakesurfing riders use fins. This eliminates the need for the extra stability at the expense of speed. That is why the Calibrated Piscus (swallow tail) is an underground favorite and now even riders like Drew Danielo is riding a wider tail (diamond Tail) as his main board. Victoria Skimboards which is huge in ocean skimming is even pushing a squash/swallow hybrid tail as their main wakeskim board.

Pins just require you to ride very front foot heavy and you cant rest on the back of the board. It is more limiting than beneficial in wakesurfing. The edge to edge response difference between a pin and a wider tail is so slim that it isnt a benefit to me.


Jeff from soulcraft gives descriptions of different tails in his description of the Jetty

Jetty - Swallow Tail



Soulcraft wakesurf boards are designed and handmade by Jeff Wahlers one at a time right here in the USA. If you are looking for a board with soul that can take you to new heights you have come to the right place. Named after the North side Jetty in Oceanside California, this board is an all around Performer. Ready to bring your surfing to the next level whether you are competing in competitions or free riding with your crew. The jetty has a pulled in nose to increase drive with wings at the tail for release in turns. The swallow tail is related to the squash tail in that it provides more surface area from rail to rail, allowing for planing speed and lift. The tail of the board curves down to two points as in a squash, but the area between those points is decreased by a vee cutout resulting in two soft points. The decreased area between the corners and more pronounced points give the board more "bite" and control in critical maneuvers. The Jetty - Swallow Tail is offered as a twinzer set up with future fin boxes for added drive and wake attachment.

　
Jetty - Squash Tail

The squash tail is Very responsive, the squash surfboard tail design provides all the surface and planing area of a round tail, contributing to speed and lift and helping to maintain speed in slower spots. The rounded corners provide a bit more bite and control than the round tail, and the square end allows the board to release. The corners allow for more pivotal, abrupt turns off the bottom or on the face, but will provide less release off the top. The Jetty - Squash Tail is offered as a twinzer set up for added drive and wake attachment.

Jetty - Round Tail

The round tail is a smoother continuation of the board’s contour, coming to a rounded end. The increased surface area helps give the board a bit more lift in the rear and allows for a looser, more turnable board. These are popular on shortboards where maneuverability is key. A round tail will provide more release off the top of a wave than a squash or swallow tail, however it makes square turns off the bottom or mid face a bit more difficult without a corner to work with, such as exists on a squash or swallow tail. Round tails help direct the water around the end of the board and provide more stability in the wake. The Jetty - Round Tail is offered as a twinzer set up for added drive and wake attachment.
　
　
Jetty - Fang Tail
The Fang is designed to be a pump driven board with rounded surf rails. It has a wider tail template than the Swallow, Squash or Round tail designs. The fang’s points are designed to assist in the boards pumping drive. The deep single concave will keep it fast and the winged rails with rounded tail will release for easy turns and surface tricks. It is offered as a twinzer setup for added drive and wake attachment. The fangtail has become the favored board of out riders.

[Timmy!]

Thanks Mitch! That is the kind of info I was looking for!

[Surfdad]

For a different perspective on tail shapes, Stretch states that there are really only two tail shapes. A rounded pin and everything else.

http://www.stretchboards.com/contact/faqs.php#faq1

"Stretch believes in two tail types, round pins and then everything else. A lot of it has to do with the length of the rail line and where it ends. Round pins are a continuous rail tip to tail whereas everything else has a pivot or end point. When the rail line ends on a pivot point then the feel of the board will be based on where that point is positioned. On the bat or diamond tails the pivot point ending the rail line in the tail block is pushed up from where the board's rocker and length are measured. Whereas a moon or swallow tail has the rocker and length measured from the very end point of the rail line, the fact that the bat tail has the rail line shortened means that the fin cluster will effectively be utilized closer to the tail as the surface area will naturally increase as the pivot points in the tail move closer to the wider portion of the board. One can disregard the use of the mid-point or apex of the tail block since Stretch believes the performance of the board is from tip to tip across the tail block width. The bat tail increases the tail block width. Quads with a wider tail will also help give the looseness and the pivot-like feeling that you can't get with a tri fin because there is a trailer fin, which needs a narrower tail to provide lateral stability when leaned on rail as to not disengage from the water. There are very subtle differences in feel that even the best surfers can't decipher. If you want to surf in small or weaker surf with the ability to turn quickly then go with the bat tail. If you want to surf small to medium size waves and you are powerful in turns then get a moon tail."

Jeff Wahlers of Soulcraft is an amazing shaper and that tail shape description originated with Surf Science or Natural Curves and is a great source for communicating to customers. No one communicates with their customers better than Jeff. It's not technically wrong, but what it does is assemble all of the shaping differences into a single shape, rather than say - my rountail is 4 inches wider at the tip, etc. It's a consolidation of a TON of different attributes that if discussed individually would leave most folks glassy-eyed.

What Stretch is saying, is:

If you take a trapezoid that is 16 inches at the top and 4 inches at the bottom and then shape a tail that is contained in that trapezoid, the differences in the various tail shapes you could make would be virtually identical.

What shapers do, is create tails that are outside of that trapezoid and THAT is where the differences in the ride come from, but not so much from the shape itself. In a taped interview, he calls the various shapes "bling".

Love you Mitch, but:

The widest part of the board is where you get the push

is patently false. If you created a board with the wide point 2 inches from the nose it would still ride and probably just fine, but the wide point would be out of the water and there is no way in hell that is transferring "PUSH" to the board that is back in the water.

Wakesurf boards are like a wet bar of soap. Squeeze down on one end between your thumb and fingers and it will squirt perpendicular and away from the squeezing. It's the pressure from the water and opposing riders weight and force that is the location of the drive on a wakesurf board. It has little to do with wide point.

Very possibly placing a wide point between the riders feet would offer more to push against, thereby enhancing drive, but the wide point is not the source of that drive. Changing the location of the wide point also impact other attributes of the ride. Possibly favorably depending upon how you ride or what you're trying to accomplish.

Do NOT start on the S-glass either, Mitch

[Timmy!]

I looked at the Stretch wakesurfer but it seems that it might be too narrow for my weight, ~200lbs. I watch the DJ Jamez video's and I'm always blown away by his riding and that's pretty much the style I want to learn.

[Timmy!]

BTW Jeff, I wasn't trying to take anything away from your James, his riding is so polished and technical that it's hard to think that I could ever ride like that!

[wakemitch]

Surfdad, my mistake. I had read/heard that in the past and I guess I took it as the truth.