Can this be wakesurfed?

[Surfdad]

Upside down? It's a little hard to see, but it's the top half of a proposed hollow carbon fiber wakesurf board. It's a layer of 6 oz carbon fiber, then 1/8" Nomex honeycomb and an exterior layer of 6 oz carbon fiber. Weighs, or will weigh after trimming, 2 pounds. Think it can be flipped so that the deck side is upside down and ridden? It will have a spoon'ish shape.

[skippabcool]

I would go with yes. You have proven that you can wakesurf anything

[Surfdad]

Now I need to fail! Thanks for the vote of confidence, skipabcool. I'm looking at this thing, with a sort of inverted rocker and wondering if super thin, super light and well upsidedown is possible!

[skippabcool]

On a side note, the light switch covers are the same ones that were in my parents house.

[rollem wake]

it'll ride

It will ride if it don't fold in half or collapse. I'm wondering about the fin cans, will they fit in there?

[Surfdad]

This house is well over 20 years old. I think James picked out those covers when he was a baby. I'm sure there's sentimental value in there if Judy hasn't asked to have them changed out.

No fin boxes, just the upside down deck. Yeah, if I can get it in 1 straight piece we're golden! When we start, the concave on the inside is going to fill with water, I'm hopeful that the inverted rocker will allow it to drain out towards the nose.

I'm going to have to seal up the "rails" in some fashion, otherwise that Nomex will just act as a sponge...then collapse.

[NICKYPOO]

How come you want to ride it upside-down? Looks to me like it should ridden right side up. Looking at it like that, I think the spoon will make it slow. I think it will ride really deep as well, like a Tige. Maybe you could put a taps plate on it. Rail control should be knife edge. This is if the thing doesn't just snap in two. It's gonna be what, 1/4"? It's hard to tell how thick it is. Can a brother get a down the rain pic.? Is it just a piece to see how those materials will lay up? Tester? Where'd you get it? Looks to be about 48"?

[Surfdad]

It's the deck side from a mold I was working on so the tail has a 1" deep cup. I'm thinking that would act like a sea anchor.

You're probably right, it's going to be slow one way or the other, but maybe less slow upside down that with the trail-hook engaged?

TAPS plate, that's funny. With a wire running up to a hand control!

It's really hard to see, but it's actually 1/8" thick + a few thousandths. The Nomex is 1/8th plus the two layer of CF. SUPER thin.

It's an excat duplicate of an older JWSM, well up to the rail apex, before the tuck. I'll try and get some additional pictures this evening.

This was a project to build out a hollow CF board, nicely molded, but then I rethought the partline from the rail apex to the bottom of the board, so stopped after molding this piece.

This is 4'5" long, good guess on the LOA. I keep looking at existing boards and think to myself, that's not necessary. I don't know how a 1/8" thick board will ride, but I'm pretty sure I can build one that CAN be ridden. So if that's the case, how would a 3/8" thick full length board with say a normal'ish concave, not full length, ride? If it was say 3 pounds? Would it just rip the shiiizzzz out of the wake?

Part of the reason we don't see super thin boards is that with foam and fiberglass they WOULD break or would be so floppy you could don't squat and wood like the old Trick Boardz makes them ridiculously heavy. So...a little carbon fiber and sandwich magic, a touch of glass on fins...what does it ride like?

I'm guessing like you say, knife edge rail control.

[NICKYPOO]

In regard to rail shape, what would you say the minimum thickness of board would be in order to have an effective rail shape?

Why not just trim the lip off? You have to put an edge on it anyway. You would have a nice, clean edge to seal.

I have one of those surf skates. The wood one.

[Surfdad]

The rail question is a good one. Remember the surftoboggan? That was a 1/4" thick rail, but without fins. The combination of rail and fin, I think, changes things dramatically. I have a prototype that is 1 1/4" thick max and the rails are probably 3/8 to 1/2 with a 1/4 tuck. Honestly, I think a 1/4" rail is probably adequate without being razor-edged. I'm not sure of that, but I'm willing to bet...1 dollar on it. I have to think that some remarkable surfing can be done with something like that in the right hands...or feet.

Yeah, I'm going to trim the flange off, that'll give it a funny ride

Do you have a surf skate? Remarkably fast for a super small board, but it weighs like 12 pounds. However, you can turn that thing remarkably well and it's not really overly grabby. Larry had an interesting design there.

[NICKYPOO]

Ok, I think I see why you need to ride it upside-down. I'm sure you guys can make it happen.

I bought the surf skate when I bought my FAE. Waaaaaayyy back in '05 or so? I never could make that thing go. Of course back then I wasn't producing nearly as good a wake. My mainline board at the time was the gen I Landlock, the green one. I rode it last time out just to ride it. I should break out the SS next season and give it spin. It's mint. I only put a handful of rides on it before I gave up. It's got that crazy double concave. It's a strange feel for sure. It's thin. 5/8" I think.

I don't like the odds on your bet. Technically. You can shape an edge but, the "quickness" of the rail should be determined by how long the water is "attached" to said rail? A thick rail equates to a longer duration of release effect for a particular shape? Does that seem logical or complete BS? Either way, you should build a prototype 1/2".

[Surfdad]

Happy Thanksgiving!

Three pictures. The surface side of the deck, the interior surface of the deck which is hard to discern, but it follows the contours of the exterior. Use your imagination Then I think the left hand rail looking down from the nose.

I'll come back to the questions, otherwise I'll get lost!

[Surfdad]

Man you are a serious student of hydrodynamics of surfboards! I think the water attachment makes sense in an environment where the wave isn't a liner like we ride. We are always on one rail, sort of on the wall. We don't really do those rail turns. Ocassionally the pros will pump out into the flats and do that bottom turn and that water attachment keeps them in that turn so they don't just spin out with fin and rail failure.

But on boards like your Walzer with that sharp rail, there isn't any attachment at all, it releases off the bottom of the board. So on the wall of the wake, I think you can get more of a rail'ly effect from gouging the surface rather than attachment. A good surf style board will have that same sharp rail from the fins back. The intent is release off the tail.

You can attest to the turning of the Walzer, is decidely purposeful, but not out of control. There is almost no fin effect simply because they are so small. When you are turning on the Walzer, I don't believe there is any attachment at all. Water wraps curved surfaces, but once it releases it doesn't reattach and the Walzer has that sharp rail nose to tail. So in effect, or so I theorize, it turns well NOT because of attachment, but because of that gouging effect. If you push it hard it will fail, but that isn't a rail issue it's the teeny tiny fins. If you sould swap 4 inch fins in it, I think you wind up with almost overpowering turning ability.

The one point I think that I am not explaining well is the thickness issue. If the water IS releasing off the bottom of the board at the outline and where the rail connects then there's no need for any thickness at all from a turning standpoint. The board just needs enough thickness to not deform, but there is NOTHING beyond that amount that serves any purposes. We don't paddle in, paddle out or wait in the line up so we don't need thickness of we can build in stiffness.

OR not Like you say, build out a tester at 1/2 and see!

[NICKYPOO]

My point exactly. The Walzer is super raily because of the zero attachment. You P5 riders will notice the same thing. You even think "turn" and its already turning. Now, something say like a 4skim has a shaped rail and while similar in shape and thickness, its much softer feeling on edge. It doesn't snap, it just kind of turns as fast as its able and that's it. Very forgiving board.

I think yer explaining it fine. I'm pickin up what yer puttin down. Thanks for the discussion.

[Surfdad]

It's fun Nick, I enjoy talking theory.

Less than 2 pounds, about as close to 1/8" thick as I can get and shaped to perfection! If it can be surfed, it'll happen tomorrow!