Designing a board for Ragboy

[st68]

Okay, I have to throw my two cents in!! I love the idea of getting Robert wakesurfing and am all for whatever it takes... I hate to see the squeaky wheels get so much attention since they are such a minority. Typically the squeakies have bigger personal issues going on and have to self justify themselves by throwing rocks at others. On the other hand, I would pay an admission fee to see Robert wakesurf because I think it would be so much fun for him and his fans!

[evil0ne]

My opinions.

First, if the people on wakeworld don't respect Robert for what he's been doing then they are crazy. Obviously he has way more experience with Tigé's personally, but he has always been more then fair in dishing the pros and cons of everything. Throw in the fact that he videos everything and is willing to send boards and sacks around the country to "spread the stoke" I'm pretty sure he's a stand up guy.

Second, if all the sponsored pros from the sport hang out with him I'm going to have to say he knows what he's talking about.

Third, we all know he's a big boy, I think that's why they bought the wide angle lens for the video camera , but I'm certain with the right board he can be riding the wave. Big or not, he seems to be pretty limber on his feet so I think no matter what board would be made that he could flip start it. The problem is going to be finding the right buoyancy. I used to be around 260 and found a lot of wakeboards in the biggest sizes still plowed through the water. I've lost some weight and found the Marius to be a nice riding board. If you can build something that can float with him on it I'm sure he'll be surfing in no time. Wasn't it you that surfed a door once?

[Surfdad]

Yeah - the infamous pink door. That was a biotch to surf, the square tail sent it out into the flats and the 72 square feet made it tough to turn

In that WW argument the arguments were so often ridiculous - one individual saying the Enzo was the best wakesurf boat and his support was that The Worlds always chose the Enzo - well duh, Centurion puts that contest on. I don't think he was attempting to be deceptive, he was just uniformed.

The doesn't surf argument was great strategy though. You can't split an atom because you're too big, we know is ridiculous, but it taps into the emotional stuff for folks. I'd be willing to bet that all of us have been faced with beaurocrats dictaing nonsense to us because they were uninformed and it resonates with folks. It's not about not surfing, the conclusion that folks draw is that then you have to be uninformed and THAT isn't the case here at all. If you can imagine, THAT single argument was the most powerful one introduced! So take it off the table and there isn't much to argue about.

In looking at boards, I think that overly bouyant is actually a hinderance, it sort of gets in the way of getting the board up. What I was thinking and maybe you guys can give me some feedback here...is develop a board that is fairly big, such that once it's on the surface it rides along fine for Robert, but that isn't super bouyant and so he can either do a deep water start like Chpthril and I mentioned earlier - Robert pushes the board down and stands on it then leans back as the boat pulls him up, or if doing a standard wakeboard start flips with ease, just a touch and the rail sinks. Then it relies on wetted surface area to allow Robert to surf. Let's be frank here, Robert isn't going to bend well at the waist and trying to gain leverage to get the board under him will be the biggest challenge, I believe. So, my thought is stiff and neutrally bouyant, plus enough surface area and low rocker to allow the board to cruise.

Make sense or am I all wet?

[Ks]

I'm 6.4 and hav been everywhere from 290lbs down to 230 and back around 240 now. I wanted to learn to surf so bad I was just really determined.

I learned on broadcast 5'6 for me it was a easy board to get up on but I could never drop the rope but it was enough to get me hooked.

I then got a 2007.5 inland red woody and that is when I really started to get the hang of it. I could ride this board and drop the rope. It was great even thought I could not do it for Long. It took me awhile to learn my weight stance and how I needed to center myself to use my weight for forward or back movement, I think that is the biggest challenge to larger riders. Little guys move less weight and therefore have a larger window before they pearl the nose or lose the wave.

I spent almost a summer ( short up here) learning my placement and how to make my weight work for me.
Lucky for me I had a great group of friends that loved surfing, so we all learned together and coached each other.

Fast forward to now and I can free surf for as long as I want, 25 minutes and 4 beer is my record..lol spin a 360 and shread so hard i have a perm smile on my face. Also have had the pleasure to teach many people how to do it as well...

To ragboy- don't let your weight get you down your mind can overcome and thing.. From your posts you can tell you love a challenge and are a very determined person... Get out there and enjoy what the rest of your family is... And I bet at any weight you will be surfing

Boards I have owned and tried:

IS red woody
Is blue lake quad fin ( feels to small for me)
HL broadcast
Obrian alias

I have had two woody's and love them! I added the big boy fins to my latest and really think the big fin helps.

[ragboy]

I really like the idea of neutral buoyancy, so I could at least partial deep start, I think that will be a huge help.

Thanks for the kind words guys, means a lot.

[jbort]

Surfdad:

Your post of 11:27 today makes good sense. I'm 260, a beginner and use Hyperlite Broadcast and while not the greatest board does a nice job per the method you describe. I'm itching to try the Red Woody cause I hear so many good things but $$ are issue. Hope this helps and good luck cause I think Robert is a great guy and should have fun riding like all of us regardless of skill. Would love to try out the board u come up with cause it sounds like a winner and clearly targets a segment that exists for bigger guys. JB

[Surfdad]

at least semi-neutral bouyancy it is, I was thinking this might also have applicability to little kids who just can't flip super bouyant boards or guys with knee or hip issues that don't have normal range of motion.

So, here is my idea, the board needs to be super stiff but not at the cost of an extra 20 pounds. The old Trick Boardz wooden's were neutrally bouyant and they were so easy to teach kis on, just push down on the rail and it sank so then the driver would wait for that and then pull up slowly.

I think that will have applicability to hugenormous guys, joint injury folks and itty bitty folks too.

It has to be a composite, I refuse to work on it unless it is

So, I took some 5 pound corecell and cut it into 2" x 12" strips - this scrap I had laying around was 3mm thick so I cut up 8 sections. Then vacuum bagged it with 8 layers of 4 oz epoxy and glass. Weight is like 2 oz, so still too light, but it's close and the resultant structure - the 24 cubic inches and 2 ounces will support 21 pounds with less than a 10% deformation.

Pictures:

[Surfdad]

In that last picture I took the test lamination schedule out into the pool and it sinks fairly easily, but it's still a tad too light. It sank without too much effort, but it wanted to swim around, so probably 50% to 100% weight increase is called for. I think what I'm hearing the big guys say is SOME bouyancy, but not as much as like that red woody, until after you have your surf legs.

I'm not concerned with getting enough speed out of the board, that's just shaping.

In extrapolating the data, this 24 cubic inches supports 21 pounds, so effectively that should translate to about 1,400 for the full length board of 5'6" x 2'. I may go to 6' to be safe. 400 pounds being pulled up through water is probably about 800 to 900 pounds of pressure spread across the board, I'm thinking the 1 pound per cubic inch is probably sound structurally.

I think it's a go, just need to gather the materials and think about shape.

[ragboy]

Wow man, that is cool. So it really is a composite sandwich. I think a "fatboy wakesurf" logo, and "Composite Sandwich" with a picture of a big hoagie will be appropriate. LOL.

Very cool. I know the Flyboy is amazing how light it is, yet so strong. RJ laughs when he picks up the JWSM now, he says it feels waterlogged. It isn't, he is just funny.

[Timmy!]

Dang Jeff, you just took the challenge and ran with it! Nice job!!!

What's wrong with the TWP Bazooka? Is that not big enough?

What about a platform start? I think with a 6' board that a platform start could be pretty easy to do.

[Surfdad]

The platform start would be interesting, but that is illegal here in California, so I'm sure that won't work for Robert and Wake9.com. I had an interesting discussion with Dennis this morning and he shares gwhite94's opinion that more float is what's needed for Robert to get up. I honestly don't know, but we can get some emperical evidence by having Robert try the 6' TWP Cruiser he owns or Dennis' 6'6" TWP Cruiser. Which reminds me of one of the most notable shapers in NorCal. Stretch Ridell is paralyzed on his right side and can't ride anymore - so using the logic from WW he shouldn't be able to shape OR form an opinion on boards or have a successful shaping business. Should I tell him he needs to start failing now?

We need to get Robert to try that TWP Cruiser and let us know. If he can get up on the board, then that will answer the floatation question. Plus the attempt (or hopefully success) will give us the info we need to go forward - no wait, I can't shape a board for a big guy because I don't weigh 400 pounds! Damnit!

[dogbert]

I'm not sure if anyone followed the nonsense over on WW, but one individual, the infamous "justsomeguy" reinvented as "somepeteguy" told Robert that his opionion couldn't be of any value, because he doesn't wakesurf. There was this hilarious exchange between a few folks - Do you wakesurf? Yes I do, do you? As if judging the quality of a wake is such rocket science that ONLY folks that actual ride that wake can judge it. I'll bet that I can tell a crappy wake from a good wake without having to actually ride it.

That's why I never stray over to WW. Too much

[Big Kahuna]

Ragboy
You have a 6' cruiser that should work for you. try it and see. If you can get up and not ride ropeless than I have the 6'6" cruiser that Jessie and I rode tandem.

[Timmy!]

Ragboy
You have a 6' cruiser that should work for you. try it and see. If you can get up and not ride ropeless than I have the 6'6" cruiser that Jessie and I rode tandem.

I'm liking where this is going. Does anyone else feel like Robert is Rocky and is about to defeat the Russian?

[somebodyelse5]

Im not bashing on ragboy, because I know he has done the research and Ive seen him on the forums for a while now, but I do see where these guys are coming from. If someone who has never wakesurfed tried to school me in all aspects of the sport, i would seriously question what they were telling me. Just look at it from their point of view.

For example, If someone who doesnt snowboard tries to talk to me about riding or tries to sell me on a brand, i really wouldnt listen to them. Regardless of the research, somethings just cant be tought, they have to be experienced. And that is how those guys on WW are looking at it.
Now ragboy, if its your son talking about the wakes and all that I can understand, but I think he needs to get his own account on TO and WW so that we know who is who...


Ragboy, take this as constructive, if I hadnt talked on forums here on TO with you before i heard from you on wakeworld I would have a much different opinion of you and wake9.com. On TO we have all seen what wake9.com is doing and how your helping the sport, but not on WW. Wakeworld is way different crowd as well....they arent going to respond the same way to the family oriented approach.