Smoke on the water !

[mcar123]

Hi all.....I'm new to Tige' and inboards, so please excuse any dumb questions I may have in the future....
We have a 2001 20ci with a 350 Mercruiser/Chev and it's been running great, until this past saturday.
I was waved down in a channel and asked to tow another wake boat who ran out of gas.
I towed them across the lake at about 5 mph, but after we unhooked, and I tried to take off, I had white smoke comming from the exhaust, and it wouldn't run right, no power.
So, I Cruised slowly home, and checked the oil, and it was clean, but it looked like it was way beyond the "full " mark, overfilled and I know it wasn't before.
Anyway, I was going to drain it and put in new oil and filter, but when I opened the drain hose, the oil won't run out.....any ideas why?
Does it have to be pumped out?

Any ideas on what could be the problem with the engine would be appreciated.
Thanks

[G-MONEY]

The best way to get the oil out is a pump. Start your boat up and let run for a few min to get the oil warmed up and it should pump right out.

[dogbert]

Was it white smoke or steam? Also, did your boat have any alarms go off (beeping either constant or intermittent)? Did you check your temp gauge? Your boat has gone into limp mode to protect the engine. My guess is that you sucked up something into your impeller and it needs to be replaced. It's a pretty easy repair and there's some instructions in the how-to discussion board on how to do this. If you did suck up debris, then I'd inspect the housing as well for any marring or damage.

G's right about the oil, they usually suck it out with a pump. It's usually better if the engine's warmed up a bit.

[chpthril]

If the oil wasn't milky due to water/coolant, then the only other explanation for increased oil level is fuel! an overly rich running engine will have unburned fuel pass the rings and mix with the oil. This can cause poor performance for 2 reasons, 1, the gas will wash the cylinder walls and result in low compression, 2, the fuel in the crack-case will vaporise, and then be drawn back through the intake via the PCV system, and add to the already rich mixture, thus compounding the condition.


You did have the end of the hose lower then the oil pan, right? Had the engine already cooled down when you tried to drain it? Cant think of any reason why the oil will not drain other then cold oil or a kink in the line. Maybe a tad bit of sludge has settled in the drain fitting.

x2 on G-Money, get a cheap 12v sucker, and measure the amount of fluid you get out.

[dogbert]

If the oil wasn't milky due to water/coolant, then the only other explanation for increased oil level is fuel! an overly rich running engine will have unburned fuel pass the rings and mix with the oil. This can cause poor performance for 2 reasons, 1, the gas will wash the cylinder walls and result in low compression, 2, the fuel in the crack-case will vaporise, and then be drawn back through the intake via the PCV system, and add to the already rich mixture, thus compounding the condition.

True, but that won't make the engine go into limp mode.

[chpthril]

True, but that won't make the engine go into limp mode.

We could assume it's in "Limp Mode" due to the loss of power, but dont know for sure. Engines can run rough, have a lose of power, and not enter into limp mode, it all depends on the type of failure and to what degree. The root cause/failure, the reason it's running rough, can cause one to enter into "limp Mode". The steam/smoke is the effect of the root failure, and, in it's self, will not cause the ECM to enter "Limp Mode".

[dogbert]

We could assume it's in "Limp Mode" due to the loss of power, but dont know for sure. Engines can run rough, have a lose of power, and not enter into limp mode, it all depends on the type of failure and to what degree. The root cause/failure, the reason it's running rough, can cause one to enter into "limp Mode". The steam/smoke is the effect of the root failure, and, in it's self, will not cause the ECM to enter "Limp Mode".

I'm just going by my own personal experience with this engine. I've lost an impeller on the water twice now and it does the same thing every time. It does look a lot like smoke, but it's not (now I don't get the white smoke because of the FAE), but the engine get's really loud when there's no water going through the mufflers. If you ingest debris, it will run pretty rough when it gets hot because the fuel cooler is right above the exhaust and with no water circulating, gets super heated almost to the point of vapor lock.

[chpthril]

Dog, you and I were posting our original posts at the same time, so I had not read your conclusion when I hit "post".

I agree 100% with your thoughts on the loss of the impeller being a possibility, but I was addressing the issue of the increased oil level. If it's fuel, it will cause damage to the cylinder walls and rings, and also bearings. The root cause needs to be found.

The smoke could be steam from an overheating engine and will also cause damage if not already. The thing that leads me away from the overheating is the fact that the oil level is up, but not milky. This leans toward an over rich condition.

At this point, Mcar123 should not rule out anything, and entertain any and all ideas.

[dogbert]

At this point, Mcar123 should not rule out anything, and entertain any and all ideas.

Agreed. Just tryin' to prioritize it for him and not get him too panicked

[chpthril]

Agreed. Just tryin' to prioritize it for him and not get him too panicked

True, but he will need to drain what ever is in the crank-case first, before running the engine anymore

[TeamAllen]

mcar123,
Welcome to the site! You should be well taken care of, as you can see already. Great job of helping the other boater. That is the TigéOwners spirit! Too bad it sounds like it contributed to your problem.

If you are trying to use the drain hose to drain the oil. It takes a very long time if it is cold. I would guess a few hours. It just trickles out. I just let it run all night. The level of the oil on the dipstick can change from being in the water and being on the trailer.

I agree, check your impeller.

[mcar123]

Thanks for all the advice!! You all are great!

During the hookup of the stranded boat, since the v drive is not the easiest to control slow, I did wander into about 1.5 feet of water/lilly pads for a few minutes, so the sucking up debris sounds possible.
I called the inboard place yesterday, and he also suggested the fuel in the oil scenerio, which is why I wanted to change the oil.
Would there be any harm in changing the oil and running it normally, and watching the oil level?
Also.....is there any way of knowing "if" it is fuel in the oil, and what would cause that situation?

I don't think it's in limp mode, due to it will take off, but blows white smoke, and runs weak.

Ok..now for the dumb question........ready? Where would debris get sucked in to the impeller...and where do I look?
There were plenty of weeds wrapped around the prop, which I cleaned off.

Oh, and there were no alarms, and engine temp was at about 170 on the gauge. Also, while that was going on, the oil pressure gauge would drop to "0" while idleing along, when I gave it more throttle, it would pop up to "40".

Thanks for all the advice, I'll get a pump today, and do that next.

[chpthril]

Thanks for all the advice!! You all are great!

During the hookup of the stranded boat, since the v drive is not the easiest to control slow, I did wander into about 1.5 feet of water/lilly pads for a few minutes, so the sucking up debris sounds possible.
I called the inboard place yesterday, and he also suggested the fuel in the oil scenerio, which is why I wanted to change the oil.
Would there be any harm in changing the oil and running it normally, and watching the oil level?
Also.....is there any way of knowing "if" it is fuel in the oil, and what would cause that situation?

Defiantly change the oil and filter, but watch gauges real close when running.

Smell and fell the oil, that will tell you as it will smell like gas and when rubbed between thumb and index finger, it will not feel slick like clean oil, but kinda "watered down" so to speak.

Cause: Fuel pressure regulator diaphragm rupture, coolant temp sensor shorted out showing the engine is cold at all times, TPS shorted out showing false hi-idle, MAP sensor shorted out showing heavy load.

I don't think it's in limp mode, due to it will take off, but blows white smoke, and runs weak.

Ok..now for the dumb question........ready? Where would debris get sucked in to the impeller...and where do I look?
There were plenty of weeds wrapped around the prop, which I cleaned off.

There is a fresh water scoop, usally on the port side about 2/3rds back that will send water throught the V-drive, then the trans cooler, and then on to the impeller housing.

I would remove the inlet hose at the housing and back-flush the sytem with a garden hose first, before removing impeller.

Oh, and there were no alarms, and engine temp was at about 170 on the gauge. Also, while that was going on, the oil pressure gauge would drop to "0" while idling along, when I gave it more throttle, it would pop up to "40".

Thanks for all the advice, I'll get a pump today, and do that next.[/

QUOTE]

[mcar123]

Cautiously optomistic

Hi ya'll.

I did change the oil and filter today, and ran it around the lake for 30 minutes, then back to the lift to check the oil again.
It smelled and felt normal.

We decided to take the kids out tubing a bit, and she ran great.
A couple times, the oil pressure gauge dropped, then came back up.
But other than that, she ran normal.
So I will keep my eyes on the oil level, and hope it does not come back up.
If it does, I will check the areas recommended.
Thanks again so much for this great place to come with questions.........50 heads are better than one.....

Have a great week!!

[dogbert]

That's great. I would still find out when the last time the impeller was changed. You need to change them out every 2 years, max. Some folks even change them every year.