Smoke coming from V-drive

[dpickett]

I've got a 2000 21V with a 350 Mag MPI. A week ago I took it out and noticed a strange noise when putting it in gear while surfing. I lifted the back cover and noticed some smoke and also water under the engine. I immidiately went back slowly and took the boat out of the water. I discovered the PSS shaft seal was what caused the water under the engine. The two faces were touching, but the carbon side with the bellows was not compressed by the stainless collar. I ordered new set screws for the stainless collar and a shaft retention collar that they recommended. Installed those and tested it out today. The shaft seal didn't leak, but I noticed smoke again and saw it coming from the V drive (the blue model). Took the boat back slowly again and shut it down. I checked the V drive oil. It was full, but the oil was very dark grey/black. It didn't look like a milkshake like it had water in it, just realy dirty. I replaced the oil back in May and checked it about two weeks ago and it looked normal (clean and full). Clearly, something is wrong with my V drive. Any ideas on what it could be or how to investigate?

[boatwakes]

Bearing in the output shaft is probably kaput and would be worth your while to have a reman unit on its way to you now. Easy to replace with some effort and a few beers but if it grenades and shatters the housing, that's bad news bears with no core return and possible shaft damage.

[dpickett]

Thanks for the response. What's the difficulty level of disassembling it and replacing the bearings? I'm not a mechanic but have done a fair amount of work on my boat (regular maintenance, replaced a starter, water pump, installed ballast pumps, fixed the shaft seal). You think ordering a rebuilt unit is better than trying to fix the one I have?

[boatwakes]

Don't try to repair. Cheaper, faster and way less hassle getting a remanufactured unit. Remember, I'm the guy on the forum who said...without properly diagnosing what's wrong, I cannot for sure be certain it's the bearing(s) and EVERYTHING meshing inside that box has tolerances so just replacing the bearings may solve the bearing issue but having been run with out-of-tolerance bearings may have now caused the gears to wear uneven and their lash is out of specification leading to seal issues and shaft issues and.... It's an easy job to replace the bearings but a hard lesson find out something else went sour from improper tolerances. She's getting hot inside and cooking the oil so don't count on anything being to spec. Save yourself the grief unless you can possibly afford to spend the winter getting it correct. Just want to make sure you can use your boat, not curse at it.

[dpickett]

Thanks for the advice. Looks like the options are to have Walter repair it (approximately $2k) or buy a new one (about $3k) from them. So, you'd go with the new one? Any advice on how to remove this puppy? On the attached pic, I've got the nuts removed where the green arrows are but not sure if I need to remove the nuts under the cover where the yellow arrow is. Also, not sure how to disconnect it from the shaft. Very hard to see or get access to where it connects to the shaft.

[boatwakes]

Green arrows show 3 of the 6 nuts that need to be removed, there are 3 more underneath. There are 4 3/8" bolts holding the shaft to the v-drive coupler and in my experience removing the hose and flush kit from the starboard side plus removing the brass 90* water connection will make your life way easier to get to the coupler bolts. You'll need a 9/16 open end and hopefully have enough access to get at the bolt head with a socket wrench of the same size. Ratcheting box end wrenches are too wide and won't get the nut or bolt heads. Once the 4 bolts are removed from the shaft, go under the boat and pull the prop towards the rudder and the whole thing should slide back. You only need about a 1/4" but it may go further. Don't forget the two wires on the v-drive pressure sensor on the port side under the water inlet. Take a photo to show orientation for installation purposes. Once the 6 nuts from the green arrows are removed and the 4 nuts from the shaft coupler are out of the way, pull the whole unit away from he transmission and be prepared to accept the weight, about 75 lbs.

Always nice to have a helper getting it out of the boat but once she's gone decide if you're going to replace the shaft seal at this point, easy to do now. If so, call Glide bearings and talk to Tim about it. Keep us posted.

[dpickett]

Thanks so much. This is really helpful. I was hoping I wouldn't have to remove the hose and flush kit until I moved the v drive a bit. That hose is so hard to try to remove...it's so stiff I can't seem to get it off. I had to get access to it before to check for debris, so I just ended up cutting the hose and replacing it. Will see if I can get it to budge this time.

I've got a PSS shaft seal right now. Any reason to replace with a Glide one? I was thinking I'd get a maintenance kit that comes with new bellows, o rings, and hose clamps. Make sense? They say to replace the bellows every six years.

[boatwakes]

PSS stands for "It will sink your boat!" I try not to bad mouth brands but will lightly tread here and politely say they're outdated and bad technology and have lead to more than one bilge pump failure/insurance claim. I recently swapped my 2015 over to Glide after speaking with them (and finding my prop shaft was bent) and having run several dripless seal systems from all brands on all types of boats, I've installed several on wake boats, ocean boats and have been nothing but impressed so far. I would suggest a conversation with them about the product but will personally say get rid of the PSS, without a doubt, every time there's a shaft seal issue or even if there's not, get rid of the PSS. Even if it's not leaking or you haven't had a problem, replace it when the v-drive is out because it is a maintenance item and there's much better stuff out there that literally lasts a lifetime now.

Be sure to look up the alignment write up when you get the v-drive back. And, for what it's worth, new or rebuilt but new is new and lets say FNG is learning about rebuilds on your v-drive and misses something...

[dpickett]

Thanks again for the help. Didn't realize PSS was not good. Good to know. I'll give Glide a call.

I've got everything disconnected from my v drive per your instructions, but can't budge the prop and shaft. The couplers on the shaft and v drive are stuck together. I've read on some other forums that I should hit on end of the prop shaft to separate them (one forum said after removing the prop, one said with it in place). Is that the best way? PB Blaster? Something else?

[boatwakes]

If the couplers are stuck together, use a real hammer and lightly tap the prop shaft coupling only, it's aluminum and can deform from a good beating. Have someone outside the boat spin the prop while you're tapping the shaft coupler. After a a few full rotations, use a soft mallet and hit the propeller's hub at the leading edge. This is area of the prop that connects with the shaft immediately aft of the strut. This area (the leading edge of the hub and the hub only, not the blades) can take pretty good beating but it should be done only with a soft mallet to avoid damage to the prop. If it doesn't separate after that please post.

[dpickett]

Can't get it loose. Don't know if it's helpful but I attached a pic. What's next? 20230910_170010.jpg

[boatwakes]

Well poop. It's gonna take a sledge and some heat now. Where are you located? We're in So Cal.

[dpickett]

I'm in the Bay Area.

So, heat it up with a torch and pound on it? Sounds the same thing I did to remove a prop. How much danger is there in having a flame so close to the gas tank? Should I try to clean up the PB Blaster and engine oil/scum on the bottom of the boat first? Looks like the flash point of motor oil is pretty high, but makes me nervous having a flame in a contained space like that.

[dpickett]

I'll need to get a torch. MAPP or propane? Or will either work?

[boatwakes]

Hey dude, DO NOT USE A TORCH YET!!! Is the prop still on because it needs to be to help split the coupler?