ANGRY at PCM Engine Group...

[IDBoating]

I don't settle for ignorance, it's a small block chevy engine which I have been working on for 20 years now and I can figure out pretty much everything that I would need to know about it in less than 5 minutes without a service manual. If there's something wrong with it that I can't figure out, I will call my dealer or post it up on the forums and see if I can get help to figure it out but based on what I have seen from PCM and Marine Power, the engines are very solid and I probably won't ever have to do that.

Then they have nothing to hide, and should be willing to sell the service manual if someone like me is foolish and ignorant enough to be willing to pay cash for it.

[91Terminator]

To keep this simple, I'll ask again in a standalone message:

Why am I the "bad guy" for wanting to learn more about my $10,000 engine?

Because PCM has done nothing wrong and your ripping them apart.

[Fiveflat]

To keep this simple, I'll ask again in a standalone message:

Why am I the "bad guy" for wanting to learn more about my $10,000 engine?

It's not the fact that you want to learn more, for me it's just the fact that you continue to bash PCM over their company policy and procedure.
I'm not saying I agree with their policy and procedure all that much either, but it is what it is and if I don't like it to the point it makes me angry, then why own one at all?

You refer to aircraft more than once in this thread. Are you a pilot? Do you perform maintenance on your aircraft yourself?

[IDBoating]

I think you should probably sell your PCM powered Tige to someone who will just enjoy the boat and not be angry at the engine mfr because they won't give them a service manual.

In other words, "Smile, shut up, and don't ask too many questions."

[IDBoating]

You refer to aircraft more than once in this thread. Are you a pilot?

No.

[IDBoating]

Because PCM has done nothing wrong and your ripping them apart.

I like their products. I really do.

I like those employees with whom I've spoken so far.

I'm not ripping them apart, I'm just asking to purchase a manual. I want to learn instead of being ignorant.

Why is it wrong to want to learn more about my $10,000 engine?

[91Terminator]

I like their products. I really do.

I like those employees with whom I've spoken so far.

I'm not ripping them apart, I'm just asking to purchase a manual. I want to learn instead of being ignorant.

Why is it wrong to want to learn more about my $10,000 engine?

Its not wrong we arent saying that just take it easy on PCM. Do us all a favor and apologize to PCM and say that you dont agree with their policy but they are a great company with great products and then end this thread and move one.

[IDBoating]

apologize to PCM and say that you dont agree with their policy but they are a great company with great products

It's more than that. I also don't appreciate being given the old "bait and switch". You may remember the following from earlier in this thread:

We have a large dealer network that should be more than happy to order the manual for you if that is what you would like. If necessary they may even have it dropped shipped to your home.

Several here chastised me for not following PCM's instructions. So I did - I went to the local PCM dealer. After all, PCM stated very clearly and very publicly right here in this thread that the dealer would "be happy to order the manual for you" and "even have it drop shipped". Indeed, in a PM I was even told:

Who is the dealer, that way I can help them with finding the manual.

So... I asked PCM directly to sell me the manual, and they said their "policy" is to order it through a dealer and we'll even help the dealer get the manual for you. So I go to the dealer, who is more than willing to help, and THEN the "policy" changes from a promise to sell me the manual to "No, we were just kidding, we really won't sell it to you".

I've been very clear from the start about what manual I want and my willingness to pay for it. I acknowledge that I wasn't following their dealer policy at first. I have corrected that. I followed their instructions. I went to the dealer. The dealer wants to order the manual. But now that I'm doing what PCM specifically told me to do, the story changes.

So tell me... is that how you want to be treated? Would you be pleased if a vendor, or a dealer, or a manufacturer, had promised to do something if you followed their instructions, but when you did they failed to keep their promise?

Am I wrong to expect PCM to keep their promises? I'm the one who should be apologizing? Really?
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[islander033]

...Do us all a favor and apologize to PCM ...

So you want the customer to apologize for trying to become informed, and in doing so, support a company and their product?

[91Terminator]

It's more than that. I also don't appreciate being given the old "bait and switch". You may remember the following from earlier in this thread:



Several here chastised me for not following PCM's instructions. So I did - I went to the local PCM dealer. After all, PCM stated very clearly and very publicly right here in this thread that the dealer would "be happy to order the manual for you" and "even have it drop shipped". Indeed, in a PM I was even told:



So... I asked PCM directly to sell me the manual, and they said their "policy" is to order it through a dealer and we'll even help the dealer get the manual for you. So I go to the dealer, who is more than willing to help, and THEN the "policy" changes from a promise to sell me the manual to "No, we were just kidding, we really won't sell it to you".

I've been very clear from the start about what manual I want and my willingness to pay for it. I acknowledge that I wasn't following their dealer policy at first. I have corrected that. I followed their instructions. I went to the dealer. The dealer wants to order the manual. But now that I'm doing what PCM specifically told me to do, the story changes.

So tell me... is that how you want to be treated? Would you be pleased if a vendor, or a dealer, or a manufacturer, had promised to do something if you followed their instructions, but when you did they failed to keep their promise?

Am I wrong to expect PCM to keep their promises? I'm the one who should be apologizing? Really?
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so are you saying that you have no PCM manuals?

So you want the customer to apologize for trying to become informed, and in doing so, support a company and their product?

Not once did the words apologize for trying to be informed come form me. I said apologize for ripping apart the company. i never said support them, that is his choice, he can like them or dislike them (he said i really do like them and their products.) not me, all i said was apologize for blaming them for being different.


I dont see what PCM has done here that they deserve the bad mouthing they are getting handed? Show me and i will apologize for what i have said. Not trying to argue just trying to get this all straightened out and end this thread.

[IDBoating]

I dont see what PCM has done here that they deserve the bad mouthing they are getting handed?

I explained above. I'll copy a portion of it here again:

I asked PCM directly to sell me the manual, and they said their "policy" is to order it through a dealer and we'll even help the dealer get the manual for you. So I go to the dealer, who is more than willing to help, and THEN the "policy" changes from a promise to sell me the manual to "No, we were just kidding, we really won't sell it to you".

Shorter version: PCM lied to me.

But they can easily fix things: Just do what they promised and sell me the service manual. That's all I'm asking: That they KEEP THEIR PROMISE.

[embo]

It's not the fact that you want to learn more, for me it's just the fact that you continue to bash PCM over their company policy and procedure.
I'm not saying I agree with their policy and procedure all that much either, but it is what it is and if I don't like it to the point it makes me angry, then why own one at all?

You refer to aircraft more than once in this thread. Are you a pilot? Do you perform maintenance on your aircraft yourself?

I'm the Pilot. hmm...don't know what I said that would make you think WABoating is the Pilot. But I have tried to relate what I face in the commercial pilot world and trying to have a better understanding of mechanical things and how WABoating's experiences have been. How I have had to let the deadhorse go and just accept what is, is what it is. I am not saying a disagree with WABoating's complaints but I can also see PCM's side of the issue.

As a pilot we are trained from the first day to know the details of most everything. Then as you move up, things sometimes change and you can't get all you think you need or all you want to know about when you want it. The reason we are like this as pilots is when we sit down and get tested, it's an "anything goes" test. It's like being tested on everything you learned from grade 1 to present day. It's a very humbling experience. So when I (pilot embo) am asking for info it is to save my own a?? so I don't look like a fool. I can totally understand WABoating's idea of wanting to know all he can about the engine.

I have also indicated, gently that WABoating might want to ease off just a little. I understand completely his frustrations. Being told that it will happen and then following the rules and then finding out it won't happen that way or maybe not anyway. Seems like there might have been some miscommunition between WABoating and Tige/PCM. This happens, I just hope WABoating can release the strangle hold on this issue, learn all he can, share with us what he finds (because he does seem to be pretty knowledgable or at least askes some good questions) and enjoy the heck out of that awesome boat he just purchased.

We all have our demons guys...remember that.

Please let me know if I can clarify something I have said here or past. I don't want to give the wrong impression. I wish the Tige Family wasn't so spread out across the Country so we could enjoy sharing ideas and issues in person. But then it's good too that we are because that means Tige is hopefully growing and becoming more popular.

[91Terminator]

I explained above. I'll copy a portion of it here again:



Shorter version: PCM lied to me.

But they can easily fix things: Just do what they promised and sell me the service manual. That's all I'm asking: That they KEEP THEIR PROMISE.

So you dont have any PCM Manuals???

[IDBoating]

So you dont have any PCM Manuals???

I don't have any PCM service manuals, no.

I have the owner's manual. No surprise there - you gave it to me when I purchased the boat.

This entire thread is about the SERVICE manual. Not the owner's manual. Not the parts list. Not a marketing catalog. The SERVICE manual, shop manual, whatever you want to call it. I've been very clear about that. Here's a quote from one of my earliest messages on this thread:

I want a factory service manual for the EX-343 CAT. Not the owner/operator manual (I have that in printed and PDF form). I want the actual service manual that is used when working on the engine.

Pretty hard to misunderstand what I meant there.

PCM promised me I could buy the service manual through my dealer. Right here on this thread. That's also pretty hard to misunderstand.

You want this thread to end? Here's how: Encourage PCM to keep their promise. Sell me the service manual LIKE THEY PROMISED.

[91Terminator]

I don't have any PCM service manuals, no.

I have the owner's manual. No surprise there - you gave it to me when I purchased the boat.

This entire thread is about the SERVICE manual. Not the owner's manual. Not the parts list. Not a marketing catalog. The SERVICE manual, shop manual, whatever you want to call it. I've been very clear about that. Here's a quote from one of my earliest messages on this thread:



Pretty hard to misunderstand what I meant there.

PCM promised me I could buy the service manual through my dealer. Right here on this thread. That's also pretty hard to misunderstand.

You want this thread to end? Here's how: Encourage PCM to keep their promise. Sell me the service manual like they promised.

Well unfortunately i do not have that kind of power. I was under the understanding that you had gotten everything that PCM has available to their customers. So i apologize for what i have said, and i guess rant on there is nothing more i can do here.