ANGRY at PCM Engine Group...

[IDBoating]

I'd just like to point out how impressed on I am that PCM is even looking at threads on Tigeowners let alone responding to a customers requests! Nice job PCM!

Credit where it is due - I totally agree with you. My complaint is not with their attentiveness, just their responsiveness. Their operator says they are switching you to "Customer Service", and when no one answers the voice mail says to leave a message and they will get back to you. I am simply doing exactly what their own people and phone system say to do, but not getting the response that is promised. That's my complaint.

[JSTIII]

Fair enough. I will approach one of the two local PCM shops and see how it goes. I need to get filters, etc. for winterizing and will handle everything in one visit.

One thing I was hoping to handle with your staff on the phone is the status of my engine based on its serial number. In other words, are there any outstanding (or already handled) recalls, etc. Can the shops do such a lookup for me?

Thanks!

WABoating

If you are taking your boat to a PCM Premier Dealer they will be able to access the information that you are requesting. This is part of our pre-delivery checklist that the dealership is to do and return when they register the engine. Please keep me up to date on this as to make sure that your receive the requested information.

Thanks

Trey Thurman

[IDBoating]

If you are taking your boat to a PCM Premier Dealer they will be able to access the information that you are requesting.

I don't know what level dealer these two are. One is the local Mastercraft/Centurion/etc. dealer and the other is the local Tige/Nautique dealer. I guess I'll find out!

Please keep me up to date on this as to make sure that your receive the requested information.

I will. Despite the back-and-forth we've had, I do sincerely appreciate your assistance. I'm still frustrated that the phone calls, verbal instructions, and voicemail instructions didn't yield the promised results but I'm hopeful we'll get there using your recommendations. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks!

[IDBoating]

If you are taking your boat to a PCM Premier Dealer they will be able to access the information that you are requesting.

One more thing - where on the EX343 CAT engine is the serial number located? I don't have any official paperwork from PCM stating the serial number, just the dealer invoice. It's easy to miss a number and I want to be certain I'm using the correct one when I talk to the dealer and register me as the owner. I looked over the engine, and even removed the top cover, but couldn't find the S/N.

Thanks!

[JSTIII]

One more thing - where on the EX343 CAT engine is the serial number located? I don't have any official paperwork from PCM stating the serial number, just the dealer invoice. It's easy to miss a number and I want to be certain I'm using the correct one when I talk to the dealer and register me as the owner. I looked over the engine, and even removed the top cover, but couldn't find the S/N.

Thanks!

The serial tag is on the valve cover.

[IDBoating]

The serial tag is on the valve cover.

Got it, thanks!

The local PCM shop has said they will "try to figure out what manual to order and get back to you with a price". I gave them a complete description of my engine including its serial number. They were very friendly about it, if a little less than confident.

They were supposed to call me back yesterday, but so far nothing. If I don't hear by tomorrow I'll call them.

[IDBoating]

Well, here we are a week later - and nothing. As usual.

When I last checked with the local PCM dealer (a GREAT outfit, by the way) the only manual part number they had found was for the owner's manual, which I already have (came with the boat). This was after I was promised by Trey Thurman here that he would be contacting that dealer to insure that they were able to order the proper manual for me.

When I heard the difficulty the dealer was having, I sent a reminder to Trey asking that he contact the dealer as has been promised. I provided their name, their phone number, and the name of their Service Manager to make it as easy as possible. I informed the Service Manager I was doing that, and he was actually excited to be getting a helpful call from PCM.

That was a week ago. So far, nothing.

Seriously, I'm trying really hard to play along here. They said work through the local dealer, and it's made no difference. They said they'd contact the dealer, but it never happened. I reminded them and provided all contact data right in the message, and still nothing.

I'm at a loss here. I simply don't know what it takes to give these people my money. I've called, I've emailed, I've visited the dealer. I don't know what more to do.

[JSTIII]

WABoating

I just got back in the office from being out at a couple of meetings. Please check your PM.

Thanks Trey

[IDBoating]

Latest update, and it's hard to believe:

PCM refuses to sell their service manuals to "mere mortals". You know, the mere mortals who actually PAY FOR THEIR PRODUCTS. That would be the folks on this website.

The official word I have received from PCM is that they refuse to sell service documentation to owners. That's why my local dealer couldn't find a part number for the service manual. Despite claiming here on this website that:

We have a large dealer network that should be more than happy to order the manual for you if that is what you would like. If necessary they may even have it dropped shipped to your home.... Please keep me up to date on this as to make sure that your receive the requested information.

...the reality is that PCM refuses to do that.

Before anyone starts thinking "that is normal for the industry", let me assure you it is NOT. My existing boat has a Mercury engine, and they happily shipped me the factory service manual on paper and in PDF format. This is a DETAILED manual with full instructions on everything from installation in a new hull to complete disassembly, inspection, and reassembly. Theory of operation guides, troubleshooting charts, voltage specs, torque specs, all of it. In other words, what you would expect from a professional engine manufacturer.

And yes, my Mercury engine is computer controlled and they do have a special diagnostic tool they don't sell to anyone except certified shops (they call it their Digital Diagnostic Tool, or DDT). Nevertheless, they don't refuse to sell you the manual.

I'm posting this here so that others considering the purchase of a PCM engine can make an informed decision by knowing this "policy" ahead of time. I wish I had known it.

[dom w. forte]

Was this from the dealer or PCM?
Was a reason stated as to why you couldnt get a shop manual?
Would you want the manuals so as to provide the authorized service facilty that info for the repairs being made?
Will they sell you the manuals if you take their training courses?

[IDBoating]

Was this from the dealer or PCM?

Straight from a PCM employee, not a dealer. To their credit, the local dealer tried hard to order the manual but was unable to do so.

Can YOU order the manuals for me? You're my East Coast dealer, after all {grin}. I'd love it if you could do it when my local dealer could not.

Was a reason stated as to why you couldnt get a shop manual?

Here's the email I received:

>>The service manual that you describe is done through our online dealer training. This is not available to the public.<<

Would you want the manuals so as to provide the authorized service facilty that info for the repairs being made?

No, I want them for personal education about a very expensive PCM product I paid good money to buy. The more I know about a product, the better I can use and maintain it. After spending a day with you talking about engines, transmissions, etc. I suspect you feel the same way.

Would YOU be happy if a manufacturer refused to sell YOU the manuals after you paid thousands of dollars for their product?

Will they sell you the manuals if you take their training courses?

I didn't ask. I don't want (and suspect I'm not qualified) to become a service tech, I just want to know as much as possible about this expensive engine.

(Note: Mercury doesn't ask if you want to take training courses, but they DO keep their customers happy by selling them the manuals.)

[Timmy!]

Maybe in 3 years when your warranty is up you can really start to worry about it.

[dom w. forte]

Straight from a PCM employee, not a dealer. To their credit, the local dealer tried hard to order the manual but was unable to do so.

Can YOU order the manuals for me? You're my East Coast dealer, after all {grin}. I'd love it if you could do it when my local dealer could not.



Here's the email I received:

>>The service manual that you describe is done through our online dealer training. This is not available to the public.<<



No, I want them for personal education about a very expensive PCM product I paid good money to buy. The more I know about a product, the better I can use and maintain it. After spending a day with you talking about engines, transmissions, etc. I suspect you feel the same way.

Would YOU be happy if a manufacturer refused to sell YOU the manuals after you paid thousands of dollars for their product?



I didn't ask. I don't want (and suspect I'm not qualified) to become a service tech, I just want to know as much as possible about this expensive engine.

(Note: Mercury doesn't ask if you want to take training courses, but they DO keep their customers happy by selling them the manuals.)

There is a big difference in mercury and PCM, mercury cares not about service techs and training, only in how much money is coming in, PCM requires mandatory training to keep their product serviced properly, and warranty issues under control.
We are certified, for PCM, Indmar, Marine Power, Mercury requires you to buy 10,000 worth of parts to become certified as a dealer, we are also ASE mastertech certified which is higher then marine qualifications.
The training is on line for PCM, and I think with your curosity you would find quite interesting and informative and you would not be training to be a tech, for that takes more then just the training.

[IDBoating]

The training is on line for PCM, and I think with your curosity you would find quite interesting and informative

So is it available to mere mortals?

Really, at the end of the day I just want the manuals. If I have to sit through some online videos, I guess I can do that. Seems unnecessary when all I want to do is read manuals, though. It's not like I'm running a rogue shop and trying to service PCM engines on the sly.

Can you provide me with a contact at PCM that would be respectful of my interest, and not just dismiss me with a "You're not a shop, we're not interested"? Thanks!

[Ewok]

Good luck with the CBTs (computer based training), you will probably have more questions answered there than here.