Oil filter...

[rushin]

I changed my oil today and found a bigger capacity oil filter than the one I have been using which seemed a little small. I have been using the Fram PH30 and I found the bigger one to be a PH5. If anyone is interested. I have the Marine Power 335.

[chpthril]

Good find, never hurts to have the extra 1/2 qt or so

[whitlock87]

I use the PH5 as well.
It is a tight fit to get it on, but I like have the extra filtration.

One thing I have learned, is never try to ask the person at Pep boys to give you a filter number. They can only cross reference for a car or truck. ( not an engine)

[chpthril]

I use the PH5 as well.
It is a tight fit to get it on, but I like have the extra filtration.

One thing I have learned, is never try to ask the person at Pep boys to give you a filter number. They can only cross reference for a car or truck. ( not an engine)

asking the guy at Pep Boys an automotive question is like asking the person at Lowes a plumbing question

if it aint in print at their finger tips......they are LOST

[spharis]

If you cross reference around a 97 camaro, or tahoe with a 5.7; it will be correct most of the time. That is what I usually use to check, but I always compare to the old one.

[Domsz06]

the only place I have found to buy my filter is at Slowrielys. No one else carries them, or least what I have found. Do they make a fram one for the 350, 315hp tow sports? I'll get the number off the filter if anyone can help out.

[Razzman]

You'll find that the PH30/PH5 filters fit a very large and diverse range of GM models and years regardless of hp. Contrary to popular belief, the extra oil capacity really does nothing but slightly extend the mileage between filter changes per se. It's the micron rating or how small of particles your filter will trap that you should be concerned with if you really want to extend your motors life and reduce wear.

Here's and excerpt from the "Motor Oil Bible", good reading if you really want to know all about oils/filters and how they affect your motor. The link for the full copy is in the link i posted. Just for the record i run Mobil 1 oil and filter in my boat, cars and Harley, i would run Amsoil filters but there not readily available except online. I also run a 5 micron filter on the bikes. Read below and you'll see what i mean but be warned it's lengthy! I had to cut some of it out to meet forum rules, read the whole thing here.

Unfortunately, most oil filters on the market today are lucky to remove even a small percentage of particles under 30 to 40 microns. This, again, leaves most of the harmful debris in your oil.

MICRON LEVELS NOT GREAT FOR COMPARISON

If you do any research on your own, you'll find that most manufacturers no longer use micron levels to rate their filters. This is a result of some manufacturers' shady representation of their filters using micron ratings. You see, some filter manufacturers would indicate that their filters would remove x micron particles and leave it at that ("x" being whatever arbitrary number they chose to print). Of course, consumers would take this to mean that all particles larger than this micron level would be removed, which is not necessarily the case.

So, most companies have gotten away from micron ratings (to avoid the confusion) and have gone to an overall efficiency rating. In other words, an industry standard test is used in which oil is contaminated with a certain number of particles of varying micron sizes. At the end of the test, there is a measurement taken to determine the total percentage of ALL of these particles that were removed by the filter. That percentage is then stated as the overall filtration efficiency of the filter.

Some companies use a single pass test, others use a multiple pass test. Both are perfectly valid and will give you an excellent way of determining how well a filter will do its job, but you should not try to compare results from a single pass test to results of a multiple pass test. You'd be comparing apples and oranges. In either case, high efficiency filters will rank in the low to mid 90's for filtration efficiency. Off-the- shelf filters will rank in the mid 70's to mid 80's for filtration efficiency.

IF MICRON LEVELS ARE TO BE USED

Nevertheless, you may still want to compare filters using micron ratings. If this is the case, the following is a good rule of thumb. A filter is considered nominally efficient at a certain micron level if it can remove 50 percent of particles that size. In other words, a filter that will consistently remove 50% of particles 20 microns or larger is nominally efficient at 20 microns.

A filter is considered to achieve absolute filtration efficiency at a certain micron level if it can remove 98.7% of particles that size. So, if a filter can remove 98.7% of particles 20 microns or larger, it achieves absolute efficiency at that micron level.

Most off-the-shelf filters are based upon a cellulose fiber filtration media. Most of these filters are, at best, nominally efficient at 15 to 20 microns. They won't generally achieve absolute efficiency until particle sizes reach 30 microns or higher.

High efficiency oil filters have filtration media made of a combination of at least two of the following: glass, synthetic fibers and cellulose fibers. Those that use all three are generally the best in terms of filtration. Those that use only two will fall somewhere in between. The best of these high efficiency filters will achieve absolute efficiency down to about 10 microns and will be nominally efficient down to 5 microns or so.

HOW IMPORTANT IS BETTER EFFICIENCY?

The fact is, you would probably be amazed at how much engine wear could be eliminated simply by using more advanced oil filtration. In paper 881825 the Society of Automotive Engineers indicates that a joint study was performed between AC Spark Plug and Detroit Diesel Corp. The study found that finer oil filtration significantly reduced the rate of engine wear.

According to the paper, the tests regarding engine wear within a diesel engine were performed using four levels of oil filtration. They chose filters whose efficiency rating was very high for particles of 40 micron, 15 micron, 8.5 micron and 7 micron sizes.

The same was done for gasoline engines, except that the relative sizes were 40 microns, 30 microns, 25 microns and 15 microns.

To make a long story short, the researchers had this to say:

"Abrasive engine wear can be substantially reduced with an increase in filter single pass efficiency. Compared to a 40 micron filter, engine wear was reduced by 50 percent with 30 micron filtration. Likewise, wear was reduced by 70 percent with 15 micron filtration."

By combining this type of oil filtration with the superior protection and cleanliness of a premium synthetic oil, you will virtually eliminate engine wear.

EFFICIENCY IS NOT THE ONLY IMPORTANT FACTOR

Of course, filter capacity and quality of construction are also important considerations. If a filter has low capacity and high efficiency, it will clog up quickly. As a result, your oil will begin to bypass the filter completely and will become contaminated very quickly. Filters with high efficiency and low capacity should definitely be changed at 3,000 to 5,000 miles or 3 months - without question.

Filters which have high capacity but low efficiency will last longer without becoming saturated, but will not protect your engine as well. Of course, filters with low capacity AND low efficiency are at the bottom of the barrel and should be avoided. Generally, you can call a filter manufacturer and ask them specifically what their filtration efficiency and capacity ratings are for your filter. They should have that information.

If they give you a micron rating, ask them how efficient their filters are at removing particles of that micron size. You might also ask them at what micron level their filters are nominally efficient (50% removal) and at what level they achieve absolute efficiency (about 99% removal). If they can't or won't provide you with a straight answer, I wouldn't purchase their filters.

If they give you an overall percentage efficiency rating, ask them if that is for a single pass test or a multiple pass test. That will be important if you are to compare those ratings with other manufacturers so that you'll be comparing apples to apples.

I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH ALL OF THAT

For those of you who just want to know what's best, here's a breakdown of the top 3, in my opinion. Mobil 1, Pure 1 and AMSOIL provide the greatest filtration efficiency in the tests I've seen. Mobil 1 and Pure 1 both achieved 93% overall filtration efficiency on the SAE HS806 test. AMSOIL scored a 94%.

In regards to filtration capacity, the AMSOIL outscored them by a wide margin. In a comparison of filters recommended for the same application, the AMSOIL could hold 21 grams of particulate matter. Comparable filters from Mobil 1 and Pure 1 held 18 grams and 15 grams respectively. So, the AMSOIL filter held 17% more than the Mobil 1 and 40% more than the Pure 1.

The AMSOIL also appears to have a little heavier construction, but everyone seems to have different criteria they use to judge this. You'd have to cut the filters apart for yourself to make your own judgements in this matter.

The AMSOIL company recommends changing their filters at 12,500 mile or 6 month increments. Based on their numbers, this seems reasonable. They have better capacity and stronger construction which should allow them to achieve longer change intervals. Since AMSOIL filters have been recommended for these intervals for about 20 years, it seems reasonable that they know what they're talking about.

Mobil 1 and Pure 1 recommend changing their filters at your vehicle manufacturer's recommendations. That generally means change the filter at each oil change which amounts to changing the filter every 3,000 to 7500 miles depending upon driving conditions. Because of the lower capacity of the Pure 1 filters, I'd recommend changing them closer to 3 to 5,000 miles. The Mobil 1 would probably last 5,000 to 7500 miles with good results.

As a side note, you can determine if your oil is bypassing your oil filter by touching your filter after at least 45 minutes to an hour's worth of driving. If the filter is hot, you're probably in good shape. If it's not, the oil is likely bypassing the filter, and it is time for a change.

[Domsz06]

wow amazing.

[rushin]

Of course Moble 1 filters are good, this comes from the "Motor Oil Bible". Why would they not promote their own product.

[Domsz06]

ha ha ha, good point!

[Razzman]

Everybody has their own opinion, and people without the knowledge of how oils/filters are made and their basic properties seem to have more so here's another link to vilify that. Make sure to check out the "Filters To Avoid" at the bottom of the page. This was an independent study by just another fanatical gearhead striving to help others. Fram filters are crap, period. As are all the others they make for other mfgrs, why do you think they're in the $2-$5 price range?

The QuickSilver filters put on by the dealers when they service your boat is no better as it only filters down to 50 microns. 50 microns! That's a lot of garbage getting through unless you're using an ash based oil like Penzoil then it probably wouldn't matter anyway.

Think not? Cut one open some time and look at the cheapness inside. I have, been doing so on my Harley's for years as it's a way to catch a problem on an air cooled motor before it becomes a bigger problem. My last HD had 85,000 miles on it and not more than a 2 pound drop in compression then than it was new, all on Mobil 1. That's a lot on an air-cooler, and i don't ride easy.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

Personally i could care less what everyone else uses, it's your choice. And i'm definately not trying to start a debate so we'll leave it at that for y'all to make your own educated assessments. But, if i can help someone make a good educated guess then why not? BTW the "Motor Oil Bible" has no offilliation with ANY manufacturers, it is the work of Michael Kaufman, President of Enviro-Guard / Advanced Motor Oil Training Center.

[FIC]

The bottom line is if you use good oil a good filter and you change your oil by the engine manufactures specifications not the oil companys you will get very good dependability out of your engine, I have yet to have any vehicle I have owned go less than one hundred thousand miles and my current van is at three hundred and sixty five thousand and has never been apart.

[Domsz06]

ok, my question is this? I change my oil every 3000 miles, and i justuse the regular old oil, and regular old filters. My dad does the same. He has a 89 taurs with 200,000 and change, I have an 92 corolla with 190xxx a 2000 f250 with 170xxx and my dad also had a ford falcon with 300xxx. My uncle had a datsun 510 I think it was called and it had 600xxx and my other uncle had a mazada truck and a 323 both with over 400xxx. We use fram or what ever filters are on sale and same as the oil.

Does it really matter in an everyday engine? Now don't get me wrong, my boat and my z06 and my bikes (all high hp and high performance yes) they all get the top of the line, but those motors are built different and to a higher tolerance. But for the daily drivers I just don't think those engines are put under the stress and what not.

Razz,

chime in here, i'm just curious if anyone has an explanation, or anything else?

[Razzman]

Years back when engine tolerences were not as tight and precision and quality wasn't on par we just put whatever in the daily drivers and didn't worry about it too much. I had a chevy that was at 300K when sold and amazingly was still running fine. With the close tolerences of todays engines i really think it does matter to an extent, but then again that's just my opinion.

Years ago when i was involved in racing we would run 8 qt. oil pans, oil coolers and dual filters on each engine to trap as many particles as possible as we ran extremely close tolerences and high rpm's. Boats and motorcycles are more suseptable to failure because they typically run at higher rpm's, sometimes for extreme lengths of time. I've run air-cooled Harley's across the desert in 108 degrees at 85+ mph for hours and never had issues. But like i said in the other post i use high quailty stuff.

Does today's daily driver need that kind of protection? It's a tuff call in IMO, the closer the tolerences the more important it is to trap those smaller particles. As the engine heats up the tolerences decrease and the smallest of foreign matter can score cylinders or bearing surfaces. I do it from experiences past because i've seen what can happen and old habits do die hard. Realistically changing the oil at the recommended interval and using quality oil and filters is probably just fine and most will never see a problem on today's engines.

[TeamAllen]

I use a Baldwin oil filter.