Break Out Another Thousand

[Jetdriver]

Well, apparently it is not my summer for problem free boating! Had a great day with some friends surfing on Cherry Creek Thursday. Boat ran great ALMOST all day. I was pulling a surfer and the boat made a clunk sound and I felt an immediate slip of the power. I powered back to idle immediately to inspect. Initially kinda felt like we hit something but that wasn't it. I attempted to put the boat back into gear and the boat made an awful metal grinding sound and wouldn't go into gear. We shut it down and had a nice little paddle back to the ramp.
I'm suspecting that my transmission is toast and due for a rebuild but I'm leaning towards replacing it with a new one since it appears that the previous owner wasn't as gentle as I am.
Questions:
For those who have pulled a drive or transmission apart, I have the ZF Hurth ZF45C trans and the ZF Hurth ZF45IV vdrive. I haven't had any issue with either since I bought the boat last year. I'm pretty religious about maintaining my toys so I swapped the fluids in everything after I bought it. Never noticed anything out of the ordinary with the fluid changes. I checked the fluid in both components and they looked and smelled normal. (ATF in both) 2 quarts in trans 1 in drive.
How much of a pain is it to pull these things out? I'm assuming you pull the drive out first then the transmission? Any checks I can do to narrow down the problem to a specific component? I was gonna have a buddy spin the prop by hand to verify the vdrive sounded normal. Outside of this I'm not sure. I'm capable of pulling them and rebuilding either but am looking for a little expertise.
Any help, tips, chastising, is appreciated!

[chpthril]

Id pull the trans/v-drive out first and inspect the damper plate. Possibly damaged during the hydro-locked engine and now flew apart.

[Jetdriver]

I'll look into that Chpthril. Im gonna tear into it tomorrow. I'm not sure how this issue would be related as the motor was shutdown at the point the water came in but I suppose any things possible. I'm also not a professional boat mechanic soooooo...
If I didn't love this boat so much I'd throw it in a dumpster! Been a frustrating couple weeks for me and the boat!

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[Wakeman22]

Now that is some funny trash.. Lol. But seriously good luck and hope you get it fixed real soon and easy.

Look at the fluid on the trans a V-drive to see if there is metal in either. That may help narrow it down..

[dakota4ce]

I had a bolt back out of a vdrive once. Inside, in a coupling. Sounded terrible, could not turn prop a full revolution. But, was FIXABLE. Nothing was shelled!


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[Germaine Marine]

Ive seen a damper plate be ran way past its expiration date resulting in springs coming loose during operation. Horrible noises, not going into gear or transfer power not to mention one of the springs being mangled straight, and shot out of an inspection plate like a dart into the neighboring oil filter. It was a scene, but a great lesson for a new boater on the importance of maintenance.


Like others have said, check the D-Plate first.

[Jetdriver]

I was in the middle of pulling the vdrive out and got called into work. Gonna check it out first then try to figure out how the hell im gonna support the engine to get the transmission out. I was told by a couple guys I'd have to remove the engine but it doesn't seem like I would. I also don't really see how you'd remove the engine with the trans on it anyhow. It's a really tight fit. The side panel braces come off but in front and behind of the engine is fiberglass. Maybe turning it as youre lifting it out? I'm kinda shooting in the dark here so anyone feel free to chime in.
After reading up on some stuff I agree that the damper plate could be the culprit unfortunately I have to pull both the drive and trans to get at it anyhow. If my drive checks out I'll be replacing the damper for sure after the transmission comes off.

Dakota- I actually read through your thread on that issue you had when I was searching for answers. Thanks for posting it.

Elevated-When are these damper plates supposed to be replaced? Is there a specific service interval? I've got an 07' 22VE with 320 hours on it.

[UNSTUCK]

... then try to figure out how the hell im gonna support the engine to get the transmission out.

Look at your engine mounts and see which way the engine is going to want to tilt once the trans is removed. Maybe a small jack stand will fit under the engine on that side, if not, use blocks of wood. If you can't get anything under it try a ratchet strap attached to an eye bolt on the back of the engine or you can hook it to the crank pully on the front of the engine. From there attach it to a grab handle on the back of the boat or something similar. One time (not on a boat though) I had to use jack stands with a tube going across them that sat over the engine compartment. I then took a ratchet strap from the tube down to the engine. Worked great, but might be harder to do on a boat as there isn't much to put the stands on and still be able to get down in there to work.

[Jetdriver]

Unstuck- Thanks for the suggestions. Good ideas!
I was able to dig around in the boat again yesterday and it appears that Chpthril was right again (go figure!) I found chunks of metal from my bellhousing and one piece that was easily identifiable as a piece of the damper plate itself. When these things come apart they can cause some serious carnage! Depending on how bad the damage to the bell housing is, is it worth trying to get someone to weld it or should I replace it with new? Also, when the damper plate grenades like this will it cause damage to the transmission as well?

Pics of pieces in found in the bilge-
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Pic of the bell housing (I'm sure it's worse in other areas, this was all I could readily see)
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[Bakes5]

Crazy......soooo, should we be changing out damper plates every so often? 1000hr? 2000hr? Just curious as to what the "expiration date" of a damper plate is. Or if it's just one of these...."well, my boat with 1200 hrs grenaded it's transmission yesterday so I'm spending $2K to get another one" situations.

[GzeroX5]

Yikes! Exactly what I was looking for here...

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...ntenance-Items



This is interesting: http://www.foleyengines.com/resource...attle-and-roll

[Jetdriver]

I don't recall seeing the damper plate on any of the scheduled maintenance lists. I've not been able to get a good answer regarding the expected service life of theses plates. I was only told by a Tige mechanic that if there is a misalignment of the input shaft that it can cause them to fail. Not sure if this is what happened to mine but I've only got 320 hours on my boat. Last summer I did start to hear a ticking sound at idle that went away with an increase in RPM but I could never figure out what it was and exactly where it was coming from. I dismissed it as gear noise from the drive. Now I know. My research on the subject suggests this sound will preclude a full blown failure in most cases.
These things are not easy to get to. If you suspect the damper plate may be spent, remove the starter and use a magnet to search for and pick up any metal chunks that may be in the flywheel housing. Otherwise you need to remove both the drive and transmission just to be able to see it.
There are several aftermarket options for the damper plate. A couple of them eliminate the springs altogether and will stay engaged with the spline even after they fail.

I'm think I'm going to replace mine with the R&D, waiting on a reply to see how much it is.

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Poly bumpers instead of springs, supposedly runs quieter $265

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This one has the springs encased supposedly eliminating the possibility of them coming out like the stock plate. $200

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This was recommended by marine engine parts for heavily weighted boats, more springs. $70

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The stock would be more like this but round $80

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[Jetdriver]

Update: received a reply from R&D on damper plate pricing, $417! They're proud of those suckers! I'm going to go with the plate that the parts guy at marine engine depot recommended. It's only $70 and is supposedly more robust as it's made for the 7.4 liter big block but will fit the 5.7 as well. It has 2 more springs on it than the regular damper plate. I mentioned operating with a lot of ballast weight and he suggested this as a heavier duty alternative. The bell housing was $200 to replace.

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Took a couple more pics of the damaged bell housing as well.


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[Jetdriver]

Got the boat all back together, lake test in the am. I had to remove two of my thru hull ballast valves because I mounted them to close to the v-drive. I hadn't considered taking the v-drive out when I installed the ballast system, lesson learned.
Here's a couple pics of the damaged parts that I took out. I ended up having to buy a new starter as well because the housing busted somehow during the carnage.

Damper plate
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Starter
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Bell housing
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Chunks that were in the bell housing
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