DIY Ballast status screen

[VladM]

Hi All,

I have R20 with no screen that shows ballast fill and I am building my own. I have the software and hardware prototype working and refining how to fit it in the boat.

I need some advise what is the best way to connect sensor from my computer to 12V outputs that power the pumps. I have 8 inputs that can sense voltage and I want them to sense running pumps. I have no idea how pumps are connected to the switches. When I opened the switch cluster, I noticed that there are some diodes or may be capacitors soldered directly to the switches. Also some connectors between switches and pumps.

Does anyone know how exactly pumps are wired on Tige and what is the best way to connect my sensing circuit to every pump?

Vlad.

[dakota4ce]

Uhhhhhhh, what?

LOL [emoji23] good on you man! Hopefully you get it working.


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[IDBoating]

Congrats on your project. Nice to see someone experimenting a bit.

I need some advise what is the best way to connect sensor from my computer to 12V outputs that power the pumps. I have 8 inputs that can sense voltage and I want them to sense running pumps. I have no idea how pumps are connected to the switches. When I opened the switch cluster, I noticed that there are some diodes or may be capacitors soldered directly to the switches. Also some connectors between switches and pumps.

Those are diodes, and they're present to handle the LED in each switch. You don't need to mess with them.

If all you're trying to do is sense whether voltage is applied to a given pump, connect your inputs to the pump side of the switch on the positive terminal going to the pump motor. (This presumes that the pump motor is wired so the positive voltage is switched at the switch... it is also possible to wire power directly to the pump and have the switch selectively ground the negative side, but that is less common.)

Presuming the switch is controlling the positive side, then your input will be "looking" at the power going to the pump. Keep in mind this voltage may be as high as +16VDC, with positive and negative spikes anywhere from 80 to hundreds of volts when the motor turns off, the magnetic field collapses, and the field energy is dissipated. You will need to design your circuitry to handle these voltages... if you're applying those signals directly to a microcontroller it's almost certain it's not rated to take that kind of voltage directly and you'll need to limit it somehow. In addition, you may at the very least want to install a back-biased diode to shunt the reverse spikes and prevent them from damaging your inputs. A 1N4001 should be sufficient, though a higher voltage rating wouldn't hurt.

Hope this helps... report back!

[shemakesmesmile]

Hi All,

I have R20 with no screen that shows ballast fill and I am building my own. I have the software and hardware prototype working and refining how to fit it in the boat.

I need some advise what is the best way to connect sensor from my computer to 12V outputs that power the pumps. I have 8 inputs that can sense voltage and I want them to sense running pumps. I have no idea how pumps are connected to the switches. When I opened the switch cluster, I noticed that there are some diodes or may be capacitors soldered directly to the switches. Also some connectors between switches and pumps.

Does anyone know how exactly pumps are wired on Tige and what is the best way to connect my sensing circuit to every pump?

Vlad.

Have you tried getting your hands on a wiring diagram for your boat? That would be a good starting point to confirm if there are diodes/ capacitors. Electrically speaking, it would make more sense to be a capacitor to help with voltage drop when the pump is running.

For the voltage input into your board, I would think that either if you make the common point at the load side of each switch or at the pump it wouldn't make a difference. Would be a significant less amount of wiring if you made the common point at the switch.

I have a Z1 with TT, but regardless the pumps should be a three wire system, a B+ coming from the switch to fill, a B+ coming from the switch to empty, and a common B- or ground.

[vmorgoslepov]

Congrats on your project. Nice to see someone experimenting a bit.


Those are diodes, and they're present to handle the LED in each switch. You don't need to mess with them.

If all you're trying to do is sense whether voltage is applied to a given pump, connect your inputs to the pump side of the switch on the positive terminal going to the pump motor. (This presumes that the pump motor is wired so the positive voltage is switched at the switch... it is also possible to wire power directly to the pump and have the switch selectively ground the negative side, but that is less common.)

Presuming the switch is controlling the positive side, then your input will be "looking" at the power going to the pump. Keep in mind this voltage may be as high as +16VDC, with positive and negative spikes anywhere from 80 to hundreds of volts when the motor turns off, the magnetic field collapses, and the field energy is dissipated. You will need to design your circuitry to handle these voltages... if you're applying those signals directly to a microcontroller it's almost certain it's not rated to take that kind of voltage directly and you'll need to limit it somehow. In addition, you may at the very least want to install a back-biased diode to shunt the reverse spikes and prevent them from damaging your inputs. A 1N4001 should be sufficient, though a higher voltage rating wouldn't hurt.

Hope this helps... report back!

Thanks. I am using optocouplers, hope they will survive. If I had my boat in the garage during winter, I would be able to take apart and reverse engineer the whole thing... Now I have a limited time and want minimum impact on our riding


Do you know if there is a way to use existing connectors to connect my sensor circuits? I don't like to cut or strip wires and solder directly.



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[IDBoating]

Thanks. I am using optocouplers, hope they will survive.

Optos are a decent solution, as long as they're rated for the voltages involved.

Do you know if there is a way to use existing connectors to connect my sensor circuits? I don't like to cut or strip wires and solder directly.

If the switches are using 0.250 quick connect, they do make an "insertion" QC connector for this purpose. You pull off the existing female connector, the new insertion connector goes on in its place, and it presents you with two males. You put the original wire onto one of the males and you can connect a new wire to the second.

[IDBoating]

Electrically speaking, it would make more sense to be a capacitor to help with voltage drop when the pump is running.

They won't be caps. No capacitor of any reasonable size can store enough Coulombs of energy to make a difference given the inrush current of one of these motors.

They're almost certainly diodes, set up so the LED in the switch goes on no matter which way you flip the switch. Without the diode, the LED would only illuminate in "forward" or "backward", not both.

For the voltage input into your board, I would think that either if you make the common point at the load side of each switch or at the pump it wouldn't make a difference. Would be a significant less amount of wiring if you made the common point at the switch.

Agreed, take the signal at the switch. Why run all that wire length?

Note that if it's an aerator pump (unipolar wiring) with its hot side connected all the time, the switch is just grounding... in which case you would connect to the incoming PUMP wire and the signal would be inverted (presence of +12VDC = pump is not powered, absence of +12VDC = pump has power applied). Still could and should be done at the switch, again no benefit to remote sensing at the pump.

[VladM]

Optos are a decent solution, as long as they're rated for the voltages involved.



If the switches are using 0.250 quick connect, they do make an "insertion" QC connector for this purpose. You pull off the existing female connector, the new insertion connector goes on in its place, and it presents you with two males. You put the original wire onto one of the males and you can connect a new wire to the second.

Thanks again. That is a perfect solution to me. I will find them online. Here is the switch from behind.


2017-05-22 10.40.46.jpg

[IDBoating]

Yep, diodes. You can almost read the part number, looks like 1N401?. They are there to turn on the switch LED in both positions, as I described before.

[IDBoating]

Here's what I'm talking about:

One of many such products. This one is a Molex P/N 0190430010, 28 cents each from DigiKey:

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=19043-0010

...and there are lots of other options along the same lines. Watch your interterminal spacing, you might need some heat shrink to prevent things from touching.

[vmorgoslepov]

Here's what I'm talking about:

One of many such products. This one is a Molex P/N 0190430010, 28 cents each from DigiKey:

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=19043-0010

...and there are lots of other options along the same lines. Watch your interterminal spacing, you might need some heat shrink to prevent things from touching.

I see. Those may not work, because terminals are too close to each other. I don't mind to do extra soldering and may be opt out having one male and one female connector. I have plenty of shrink wrap

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[IDBoating]

Another option would be to build yourself some Y adapters. A few inches of wire with a female in the center and two wires coming off with males at the ends would free up space behind the switch and allow two separate QC connections. Or daisy chain them with the female at one end. Whatever you like. (And yes, I'm still talking about boat wiring!)

There are also inline splices that allow you to connect straight to the existing wire. I am not a fan of these, but I mention them for completeness.

Personally, on a high vibration environment like a boat, I go with crimp + solder + heat shrink. Even if I have to build "adapters" like the Y described above. I've seen too many crimp-only connections come apart. Even on my 2009 Tige when it was brand-spankin' new. Some of those factory audio power cable connections, um, well....

[boonecragun]

IDboating, is there a specific brand of connectors you use? I have been looking around for good crimp/solder/heat shrink connectors.

[IDBoating]

Any name-brand will be good quality. Molex, Amphenol, AMP, anyone like that.

Really, though, 0.250 QC's are low-tech connectors. I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of difference.

[VladM]

Another option would be to build yourself some Y adapters. A few inches of wire with a female in the center and two wires coming off with males at the ends would free up space behind the switch and allow two separate QC connections. Or daisy chain them with the female at one end. Whatever you like. (And yes, I'm still talking about boat wiring!)

There are also inline splices that allow you to connect straight to the existing wire. I am not a fan of these, but I mention them for completeness.

Personally, on a high vibration environment like a boat, I go with crimp + solder + heat shrink. Even if I have to build "adapters" like the Y described above. I've seen too many crimp-only connections come apart. Even on my 2009 Tige when it was brand-spankin' new. Some of those factory audio power cable connections, um, well....

Just ordered connectors from DigiKey. I would guess the terminals that have diodes would be my signal wires. Once I get the connectors, I will see how it fits that not many pieces hanging out. I will go with soldering. For automotive/boat use even if I use clamp connectors, I don't have a proper clamp tool and still apply soldering. Meanwhile I am busy going through the third iteration for the gauge design. Printed two of them and did not like the appearance