Replacing speed set

[efrickle]

I've been scouring the interwebs for info on this and I'm afraid I have the "black sheep" year for tige. I have an 06 24Ve and would love to hear a solution for adding perfect pass. The speed set is terrible for surfing and I think it may be causing other issues as well. Would it be possible to upgrade to a GPS speedometer, then add perfect pass? There isn't anything out there that plays directly with my ECM. I've read a lot of threads and haven't seen anyone working past this. 06 was a crappy year for a few things, but I'm committed now. Thanks in advance!

[boardman74]

This has been visited many times and as of yet I have never heard of a solution other than the Tige speed set. Just replaced a pad for a customer and talked directly with the guys at Tige to verify what I have read on here. They say there isn't another option, same as everyone on here and other sites. Issue isn't with the Speedometer or the paddlewheel, its talking to the Marine power ECM. None of the systems interface with it so they don't work is the way it was explained to me.

[little_criket]

I'd be interested if there is a solution to this...

[IDBoating]

Can anyone elaborate on this? What is the problem with "talking to the Marine Power ECM"? Proprietary protocols that MP is unwilling to share? Their side of the firmware is fundamentally broken so nothing external will work anyway?

Also, please describe what is meant by "the SpeedSet is terrible for surfing".

I'm asking because depending upon what is wrong I may be able to help.

[efrickle]

The only thing I have thought of was to try talking to these guys that work on these things. I have met both of the guys that operate this small business. They can get into the files in the ECM. it was pretty cool to me. Maybe they can figure some way around it?
http://www.aldlcable.com/contact.asp

Thanks guys! I will check into this option and I will post what I find.

[efrickle]

Can anyone elaborate on this? What is the problem with "talking to the Marine Power ECM"? Proprietary protocols that MP is unwilling to share? Their side of the firmware is fundamentally broken so nothing external will work anyway?

Also, please describe what is meant by "the SpeedSet is terrible for surfing".

I'm asking because depending upon what is wrong I may be able to help.

I would love to know the answers to your questions as well! I am not a fan of the Speed Set for surfing because it runs off of a paddle wheel and not GPS. It will always accelerate past the speed you have it set by at least 3-4 miles per hour, then fall back into the set speed. You can feather the throttle to help reduce this surge, but it still isn't great. It also re-sets every time you shut the engine off and you only have 1 mile per hour increments of adjustment after it it set. I have been having issues with my ECM throwing a code 81 that points at the TAC module and it only seems to happen when using the SpeedSet.
I would appreciate any help!!

Thanks!

[IDBoating]

As I said, if anyone can shed light on this problem of "talking to the Marine Power ECM" it would help. Does that MP engine use a CAN network? Does it follow standard J1939 or NMEA protocols, or use something entirely proprietary? If the latter, has that data been subsequently published? It's hard for me to help when I don't know the problem....

EDIT: I wonder if this is a case of "closed contact" cruise control. There are a few marine engines out there where the ECU provides cruise control by exposing some open contacts for "set", "faster", "slower", etc. You simply hook up a set of switches and the ECU handles cruise like a car does... no options for memory, etc. Such a setup would not be "compatible" with CAN-based systems but is not exactly difficult to support. If you want cruise control, add the switches and you should be good to go.

[efrickle]

As I said, if anyone can shed light on this problem of "talking to the Marine Power ECM" it would help. Does that MP engine use a CAN network? Does it follow standard J1939 or NMEA protocols, or use something entirely proprietary? If the latter, has that data been subsequently published? It's hard for me to help when I don't know the problem....

Thanks WA, This is a bit over my head...I have a call into MP to get some info on this and my other ECM issues. I will try and report my findings.

[IDBoating]

When you call them, ask how cruise control is handled on your engine. See if it's "a simple panel of switches" or if it's based on CAN communications. The answer will tell us a lot.

[IDBoating]

Their product simulates the pulse train coming off a standard paddlewheel, basing the rate off the GPS module. Otherwise it doesn't do anything new or better. You'll get more accurate absolute over-the-ground speed, but if you're dissatisfied with how your cruise control works this won't fix it.

[Duncan]

Their product simulates the pulse train coming off a standard paddlewheel, basing the rate off the GPS module. Otherwise it doesn't do anything new or better. You'll get more accurate absolute over-the-ground speed, but if you're dissatisfied with how your cruise control works this won't fix it.

I installed the Nautic Laugic GPS converter on our 2009 RZ2 this last off season. With GPS, I notice that Speed Set is smoother for surfing, eliminating some of the surges I would get with the paddle wheel system.

My install of the system works perfectly so far. One other user here on TO (EricU) has had some issues with the unit not being correctly calibrated.

[IDBoating]

With GPS, I notice that Speed Set is smoother for surfing, eliminating some of the surges I would get with the paddle wheel system.

Exactly. If you're having trouble with the paddlewheel, basing your speed on GPS instead can help. But ultimately it's just a speed signal used by the cruise control. If the cruise control itself has issues (buttons don't work, resolution only 1MPH, won't lock, loses settings after power down, etc.) changing how you measure speed won't fix those.

[Duncan]

Exactly. If you're having trouble with the paddlewheel, basing your speed on GPS instead can help. But ultimately it's just a speed signal used by the cruise control. If the cruise control itself has issues (buttons don't work, resolution only 1MPH, won't lock, loses settings after power down, etc.) changing how you measure speed won't fix those.

Agreed. Just last weekend, SpeedSet missed locking in once and reset itself once. It is better than the early problems we had with SpeedSet but it is far from fixed and reliable.

[efrickle]

When you call them, ask how cruise control is handled on your engine. See if it's "a simple panel of switches" or if it's based on CAN communications. The answer will tell us a lot.

Well, after talking with Eddie at Marine Power, I know a little more... The speedset is not CAN based. It is analog based with a simple 12v signal to a pin on the ECM. It will simply hold the speed until cancelled or the engine is turned off. What I still don't understand is why you can't get a perfect pass and that type of system to interface. He mentioned that they had kicked the idea around of making an "upgrade kit" to MEFI 5 with a wiring harness and ECM. He figured it would cost $1500-2K. At this point I am considering doing something like this or going back to a "drive by cable" throttle to try and eliminate the electrical demons I have with the MEFI 4 and TAC Drive by Wire. Here is my other issue: http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...imp-Mode/page2 Let me know if you have any thoughts. I would greatly appreciate any help!!

[IDBoating]

I've heard of that system, just didn't know that was what MP was exposing on that engine. Given that it's analog running in the long harness from the console to the ECU, I'm not surprised it has "issues"... lots of opportunity for noise pickup in a setup like that. Better if it were a differential signal, but that may have been more complexity than they wanted to deal with back then.

Funny thing is, I specifically remember a discussion I had with Perfect Pass a while back where they described how they talked to this exact type of system. I can't remember, but have you called and talked directly to PP about your engine? Are you certain THEY say it's not possible?