New Ballast Pumps Blew a fuse!!

[EricU]

After having an all new ballast system installed consisting of five reversibles, two each front and rear with one rear cross-over, we hit the lake about 2 1/2 hours from our house.

The new Wetsounds/Kicker stereo system sounded awesome...until we tried out the reversible pumps. First pump on, no problem. Turn the first pump off, then turn on pump #2 and POP! no power to any of the reversibles and to boot the stereo shop wired up the WS420SQ to the same under dash + post that all the reversibles were wired to!! So now NO tunes!!!

Anyway I couldn't figure out what fuse or breaker popped, but the boat still ran fine (no bilge pump though!!) so we just ran the boat that way the rest of the weekend.

Below I have two diagrams, the first is the current wiring system (to the best of my knowledge/guessing)

The second shows the Blue Seas Safety Hub 150 P/N7748 that I want to add up under the helm and connect the five pumps and WS420SQ to. This off-season when I switch over to a BlueSeas Add a battery/ACR-ProMariner on-board charger I will switch the WS420SQ over to the stereo (+) distro block

I want to be able to run at least two pumps at a time and have to figure at some time someone is going to "bump" maybe three or more!

Some questions I have;

1. Are my wire gauge sizes correct?
2. Should I run larger wire to the new BS7748?
3. Over on the stereo amp side, should I add a couple of 100A fuses? The Kicker amps dont seem to have breakers

RZ4 Stereo Wiring (07-22-13) Current.jpgRZ4 Stereo Wiring (07-22-13) Current Fix.jpg

[chpthril]

Eric,

With that many pumps, and their potential combined load, I would highly consider adding in the fuse box now. You have a potential of adding an additional 100A current draw to the helm BUSS. It was not designed for that, You should be able to run all 5 pumps at once, if wired correctly. My gut says all 5 switches are daisy-chained and #2 is wired wrong and popped the fuse that feeds them all. But dont know why that took out the SW-420 also. Someone needs to get under there with a volt meter and trace it down. This will A) find the your current problem and end speculation and B) determine how its currently wired so any issues can be addressed.

Amp B+ trunk like from battery in the back to amps: A) I think 4 ga cabling is too small, but I need to do some math. B) Its not terminated to the correct place, it needs to go to the switch.

Can you confirm for me, what make and model number battery switch you have? A traditional OFF/1/BOTH/2 switch has 3 terminals, not 4 or 5. This is very important in order to determine exactly where the stereo, batteries and engine loads get connected.

4ga on the B+ side between the batteries and the switch is too light for my liking. A starter can peak @ 300A current draw and settle at 200A once the engine is spinning over. I find it interesting that in a number of cases, the ground cable is larger then the corresponding B+. Both cables need to be of adequate gauge to carry the load equally. There is no need to over size one as there is no advantage. So both can be the same size.

ALL audio gear, including an EQ, needs to share the same battery source. The WS-420 needs to be rewired to the same battery source as the head-unit and amps. You will likely have noise issues until.

To answer your questions directly;
1) answered above
2) no, 2 ga is ample
3) In your diags, you have a 100A fuse with a "?". Are you questioning the size or its existence? Yes, you need to have some sort of main circuit protection right off the battery for the amp trunk line. For those 2 amps, 100A seems about right, but again, i need to do some calculations. The goal is to carry the load of the amps without exceeding the capacity of the cable. The ZXM amps do not have chassis mounted internal fuses, so I would change the non-fused block to a fused block. 80A for the zxm800.4 and 50A for the zxm400.2 will be fine.

[EricU]

Eric,

With that many pumps, and their potential combined load, I would highly consider adding in the fuse box now. You have a potential of adding an additional 100A current draw to the helm BUSS. It was not designed for that, You should be able to run all 5 pumps at once, if wired correctly.

I do plan on adding the new fused buss block now, I just want to make sure I am getting and installing it correctly (hence the questions and diagram).
I am also thinking of upsizing to a 1/0 feeder and larger breaker to feed the new buss. It has a pretty large amp capacity and there would be four additional fuse locations.
The current switch is a Perko 8501 2/All/1/Off, I just got lazy with my Visio drawing.
During the off season is when I will change over to an ACR system and add an onboard charger.

My gut says all 5 switches are daisy-chained and #2 is wired wrong and popped the fuse that feeds them all. But dont know why that took out the SW-420 also.

They aren't daisy chained, but they are all landed on the same 10mm bolt that is on the factory helm buss and whatever fuse that feeds the factory helm is what seems to have blown. Hopefully I will have a chance later today to check it out (Damn work getting in the way of my boating!!)

The 420 was wired to the same 10mm bolt, that is why it doesn't have power now.

Amp B+ trunk like from battery in the back to amps: A) I think 4 ga cabling is too small, but I need to do some math. B) Its not terminated to the correct place, it needs to go to the switch.

Can you confirm for me, what make and model number battery switch you have? A traditional OFF/1/BOTH/2 switch has 3 terminals, not 4 or 5. This is very important in order to determine exactly where the stereo, batteries and engine loads get connected.

The photo below shows the switch which I have mounted on the backside of the access door (so it wont be in the way if I can ever get my bags filled!!)

Perko 8501.jpg


The amps currently do NOT go through the switch, I guess I need to redo that cable landing.

As I mentioned before, it is the factory Perko 8501 switch.

4ga on the B+ side between the batteries and the switch is too light for my liking. A starter can peak @ 300A current draw and settle at 200A once the engine is spinning over. I find it interesting that in a number of cases, the ground cable is larger then the corresponding B+. Both cables need to be of adequate gauge to carry the load equally. There is no need to over size one as there is no advantage. So both can be the same size.

I thought they were a little undersized also and will change them out when I go to the ACR system. At that time I will also run the 420 power over to the amp circuit

3) In your diags, you have a 100A fuse with a "?". Are you questioning the size or its existence? Yes, you need to have some sort of main circuit protection right off the battery for the amp trunk line. For those 2 amps, 100A seems about right, but again, i need to do some calculations. The goal is to carry the load of the amps without exceeding the capacity of the cable. The ZXM amps do not have chassis mounted internal fuses, so I would change the non-fused block to a fused block. 80A for the zxm800.4 and 50A for the zxm400.2 will be fine.

The reason that I have the question mark is that there is an inline fuse, but I don't know what size it is.

1. Can I change out the current stereo amps inline fuse to one of the waterproof magnetic style breakers? It would be located back by the batteries and fed off the Perko switch
2. Can I add two inline fuses after the non-fused distro block up by the amps?

[EricU]

I cleaned up my single line a little:

1. Corrected the Perko connections
2. Upsized the new waterproof main breaker on the new buss 2ga feed
3. Moved the stereo amps' feed to the Perko

I still need to add inline fuses to the stereo amps

RZ4 Pump Wiring (07-23-13) Current Fix.jpg

[chpthril]

They aren't daisy chained, but they are all landed on the same 10mm bolt that is on the factory helm buss and whatever fuse that feeds the factory helm is what seems to have blown. Hopefully I will have a chance later today to check it out (Damn work getting in the way of my boating!!)

The 420 was wired to the same 10mm bolt, that is why it doesn't have power now.

If they are terminated to the factory helm BUSS, then it has a breaker bolted to the transom just behind and above the batteries. it has a lever that will be deployed if its tripped. If its tripped, then quite a few things should also not be working. I would also suspect that #2 switch is wired incorrectly.

The photo below shows the switch which I have mounted on the backside of the access door (so it wont be in the way if I can ever get my bags filled!!

You can mount the switch in the upper outside corner of the locker and it will not be in the way of the sacs. This makes it more convenient then pulling the access door open, especially if the ballast is filled.

The reason that I have the question mark is that there is an inline fuse, but I don't know what size it is.
Can I change out the current stereo amps inline fuse to one of the waterproof magnetic style breakers? It would be located back by the batteries and fed off the Perko switch
Can I add two inline fuses after the non-fused distro block up by the amps?

I prefer a breaker when its located in the bilge area, as opposed to a traditional automotive fuse holder.
Adding inline fuses just adds additional connections. I would consider just replacing the non-fused block with a 3 or 4 way fused block. No other wiring changes would be necessary.

[EricU]

...I prefer a breaker when its located in the bilge area, as opposed to a traditional automotive fuse holder.
Adding inline fuses just adds additional connections. I would consider just replacing the non-fused block with a 3 or 4 way fused block. No other wiring changes would be necessary.

Mike thanks for the input,

On the stereo side, my amps are up under the helm and my batteries are back behind the rear locker;
Don't I have to have some type of protection back by the batteries?
Can I add one of the magnetic type breakers like a Blue Seas PN 7187 surface mount 100A? (back by the batteries)
Could you send a link to one of the 4-way fused distribution blocks you are referring to?

Thanks again for all your help!

[chpthril]

On the stereo side, my amps are up under the helm and my batteries are back behind the rear locker

If you ever re-do or need more space, Tige glasses in a 1" thick composite board just for mounting amps in the port locker inside of the walk-way wall

Don't I have to have some type of protection back by the batteries? Can I add one of the magnetic type breakers like a Blue Seas PN 7187 surface mount 100A? (back by the batteries)

Most definitely. Youve got it in the schematic as a 100A fuse, but as noted, I prefer a breaker.

Could you send a link to one of the 4-way fused distribution blocks you are referring to?

Ive been using a lot of the T-Spec V12FDB-134M. It has a single 1/0 ga in and 3 4 ga out and uses MANL fuses.

[EricU]

Ok, here's my latest single line. I think that I have incorporated all the correct changes/suggestions/additions.

I plan on using the Wetsounds 120A circuit breaker, just to differentiate it from the other circuit breakers that it will be near. It will be easily identifiable in the future if anything does go wrong.

RZ4 Pump Wiring (07-24-13) Current Fix.jpg

[EricU]

One more question!

This offseason, I want to add an on-board charger and ACR and I want to get the single line correct now.

• Is the Blue Seas "Add-A-Battery" P/N 7650 which includes an SI-ACR and an e-Series dual circuit batter switch the components that I should be starting with?

Thanks again for all the help.

[chpthril]

Im a big fan of the both the 7610 ACR and the 5511e DCP switch, I just buy them individually.

[EricU]

Ok, so I lied earlier...and maybe one more question!!

The previous single line above is the current fix to get the ballast pumps and the stereo working again.

The new single line shown below is for adding the ACR and On-board charger during this off-season. I plan on placing the ProSport 20 in the helm storage area near the amps. The 5511 Switch and 7610 ACR will go back by the batteries behind the rear port storage locker.

• Is the single line below correct?

BTW, I will apologize in advance as my Visio skills aren't that great.

RZ4 ACR Wiring R1 (07-24-13).jpg

[chpthril]

I would consider locating the charger back near the batteries and avoid the extensions.

[EricU]

I would consider locating the charger back near the batteries and avoid the extensions.

I was going to if I can, it's just getting kind of crowed back there, plus it is a PITA to service!

I cleaned up the single line a little more.

• Does the wiring of the ACR, Switch and batteries look correct?
• Does the switch care which side (top or bottom) of the #1 and #2 connections are landed to the batteries? (hope that makes sense..)
• Should I forget about the SI connection?
• Any benefit (now) of running the grounds to a common buss up under the helm for all the non-stereo side?

RZ4 ACR Wiring R2 (07-25-13).jpg

[chpthril]

Does the wiring of the ACR, Switch and batteries look correct?

Flow wise, everything looks fine. Your WS-420 B+ can actually share the same terminal as the head-unit, so that 4th terminal with the 10A fuse indicated with a blue wire is not needed. What you have is perfectly fine, just not needed if it makes think simpler. Also, the WS-420 B- needs to terminate to the GND BUSS along with the head-unit.

Does the switch care which side (top or bottom) of the #1 and #2 connections are landed to the batteries? (hope that makes sense..)

In theory, no. The goal is to make sure the house battery and loads get connected to one mating pair of terminals and the main cranking battery and engine loads get connected to the other mating pair of posts. The main thing is to get the ACR and charger on opposite sides of the switch, as you have.

Should I forget about the SI connection?

Yes. In most cases, we find that the house banks is below the combine threshold, so the ACR is open and the house and main banks are already isolated.

Any benefit (now) of running the grounds to a common buss up under the helm for all the non-stereo side?

There is already a helm mounted BUSS for all there. Even though all grounds eventually lead back to the engine, I like to keep all the stereo GND's as close to the amps or house battery, depending on the design and layout.

For your 7748 fuse box, 2ga is fine, 4 is sufficient.

For the amp's B+ and B- trunk lines, I would suggest 1/0 due to the length.

For the house battery B+ to the switch, I would also suggest 1/0. 2/0 for the main cranking is more then sufficient, but 1/0 here also is plenty.

[EricU]

Mike,

Thanks for all the input. As I have a couple of weeks before the boat hits the water again (non-boating family vacation and then the local fair) I have decided to skip the intermediate fix and go for the full rewire with the addition of the ACR/551e etc.

Again, THANKS!! for your help and time. (and my Visio skills got a little tune up!)