Ipod Settings and Music Quality

[Matt Garcia]

Try only chainging from AAC to MP3 without changing the other stuff...

Matt removed a picture....

There is a way.... It is lossy, but you can compile a playlist of AAC files, then burn a CD of the playlist.

Removce the CD, reinsert, and then RIP the CD using MP3 as your preferred file type....


This is a classic example of why I refuse to buy music as a download...

It is like going to Olive Garden, and not being able to pass the pasta bowl.... they severly limit your freedom to do, (within the law) everything you should be entitled to.

Ya however that takes too much time! One thing that iTunes has down is convenience and that is one reason I use it. Its way too easy to search, buy, download and import music.

As much music as my wife and I both buy (share the same itunes acct.) I would be spending hours each day on the computer burning music. The trade off is lower bit rate but nothing the "increase volume" button can't handle.

[philwsailz]

Ya however that takes too much time! One thing that iTunes has down is convenience and that is one reason I use it. Its way too easy to search, buy, download and import music.

As much music as my wife and I both buy (share the same itunes acct.) I would be spending hours each day on the computer burning music. The trade off is lower bit rate but nothing the "increase volume" button can't handle.

I think the bit rate of a purchased download is fine. It is only the format, specifically AAC that frustrates me personally with purchased downloads...

Sorry, the discussion went on a bit of a tangent. Bit rate only comes into discussion as a function of ripping and sharing. Those gray-area "free-download" sites where people have uploaded their own copies of files that you then download are always suspect. Folks who are ripping without understanding how bit rate can affect quality inevitably will have lower quality tracks. Copying from someone who has a lower bit rate copy will leave you with a less than desirable piece of music.

If you are ripping your own, for your own use, you are best served if you check your settings, and make a conscious decision about what is important to you, file size vs. quality.

I totally agree, the convenience of iTunes is incredible, and takes care of better than 90% of the people using it.

Good thread, good discussion guys!

[ragboy]

iTunes sells in 2 formats, but is moving completely to the second.

1. 128kbps DRM'd AAC

2. 256kbps NO DRM AAC <-- This is called iTunes Plus.

There are TONS of threads on this stuff and pepsi challenge listening tests and blah blah blah. I have been doing this and studying it since before iTunes was called iTunes. When I first started ripping, it was called SoundJam.

I will summarize the general findings out there.

1. Most can tell the difference between 128k and 256k aac.

2. Most can tell the difference between 128k and CD.

3. ACC with a good encoder (itunes and nero) is considered better than MP3 at same bitrate. There are some serious arguments about this, but if you search all the tests, seems pretty conslusive.

4. Most CANNOT tell the difference between 256k AAC and CD. 256 AAC is considered to be the best bitrate and encoder method for ripping.

That about sums it up. If you are a real nut, and have a TON of space on your ipod, you can use the Apple Lossless setting, but the setting you want is called "iTunes Plus" in the latest itunes preferences. This is even better than a normal 256k AAC encode, because the iTunes encoder uses VBR (variable bit rate) which all iPods support. 256k VBR AAC is about as good as you can get.

Last, there is an argument, that songs purchased from iTunes plus, are better than ripped versions. Mostly you will never notice, but I have found that to be true on occasion. The reason is that on many itunes Store encodes, the encode is done from the 24bit 96khz masters, where you are ripping from a 16bit 44khz CD. Also, sometimes a CD will be a bit scratched, and will "skip" when imported.

If you have a lot of itunes songs, upgrading to plus is worth it. This is my crack, I think I have 5000+ purchased songs. I have been using itunes store since the day it opened.

1 last thing, you will get the best sound when you use a car/boat stereo that uses a USB connection (not cenet type) to the ipod, and the DA converter in the head unit is better than the ipod. This will bypass the ipod DA converter altogether and so the head unit and encode quality will be the only things affecting quality of music. Newer clarion units use USB.

[ragboy]

Here is a test, that concludes AAC is better than MP3, that is hard to argue with.

http://www.stereophile.com/features/...cd/index1.html

[tige']

Lot's of interest in this, I am glad I asked the question!! When I get home I need to play on the computer and figure out what everyone is talking about!!

[philwsailz]

Sweet Rag, thanks for the info and the link!

[dogbert]

iTunes does not have an adjustment to their quality. Personally I feel they do a great job with managing and providing a quality file.

No, but there is a setting to normalize the volume across your tracks. This is very helpful on my boat because some tracks are sooo much quieter than others and you can go from barely audible to clipping in a heartbeat.

As for the quality, some songs are better than others. Ripping from CDs definitely provides the best quality. I do hate the DRM crap on there.

[Matt Garcia]

iTunes sells in 2 formats, but is moving completely to the second.

1. 128kbps DRM'd AAC

2. 256kbps NO DRM AAC <-- This is called iTunes Plus.

There are TONS of threads on this stuff and pepsi challenge listening tests and blah blah blah. I have been doing this and studying it since before iTunes was called iTunes. When I first started ripping, it was called SoundJam.

I will summarize the general findings out there.

1. Most can tell the difference between 128k and 256k aac.

2. Most can tell the difference between 128k and CD.

3. ACC with a good encoder (itunes and nero) is considered better than MP3 at same bitrate. There are some serious arguments about this, but if you search all the tests, seems pretty conslusive.

4. Most CANNOT tell the difference between 256k AAC and CD. 256 AAC is considered to be the best bitrate and encoder method for ripping.

That about sums it up. If you are a real nut, and have a TON of space on your ipod, you can use the Apple Lossless setting, but the setting you want is called "iTunes Plus" in the latest itunes preferences. This is even better than a normal 256k AAC encode, because the iTunes encoder uses VBR (variable bit rate) which all iPods support. 256k VBR AAC is about as good as you can get.

Last, there is an argument, that songs purchased from iTunes plus, are better than ripped versions. Mostly you will never notice, but I have found that to be true on occasion. The reason is that on many itunes Store encodes, the encode is done from the 24bit 96khz masters, where you are ripping from a 16bit 44khz CD. Also, sometimes a CD will be a bit scratched, and will "skip" when imported.

If you have a lot of itunes songs, upgrading to plus is worth it. This is my crack, I think I have 5000+ purchased songs. I have been using itunes store since the day it opened.

1 last thing, you will get the best sound when you use a car/boat stereo that uses a USB connection (not cenet type) to the ipod, and the DA converter in the head unit is better than the ipod. This will bypass the ipod DA converter altogether and so the head unit and encode quality will be the only things affecting quality of music. Newer clarion units use USB.

Good info.

What is the cenet type? and "DA" converter?

I currently use an auxiliary cable that goes from my dash to my iPhone.

[dogbert]

DA is for Digital->Audio converter. On high end CD players, you can actually buy different ones that color the sound differently.

[ragboy]

iTunes is almost DRM free, and will be DRM free soon. Any time you buy a track with a + (PLUS) sign on it, it is encoded in 256kbps DRM FREE AAC. There are NO restrictions.

Also, an itunes purchased track has the potential of being better, and many times is better than a CD rip, even if you CD is pristine and undamaged. The iTunes tracks have been encoded from original digital masters (when possible), which are typically at higher bitrates like 24bit 96khz. There would be very little difference, but definitely a difference. Assuming you ripped CD at same bitrate.

[ragboy]

Good info.

What is the cenet type? and "DA" converter?

I currently use an auxiliary cable that goes from my dash to my iPhone.

There are 3 ways to connect.

1. Auxilliary cable, as you mentioned.

2. CeNet style connector, that connects to dock port, but uses analog line level audio out from ipod.

3. Direct USB from the dock connector.

1 is the worst quality, still can be good though, and also volume you set on ipod effects quality. Headphone jack/cable can effect quality. This is like recording from your headphone jack on your stereo, vs using the RCA line level outputs.

2. Is like using the line level RCA outputs on your stereo. iPod is still sending out Analog signal, but done at consistent line level for best analog quality and levels to stereo/head unit.

3. This has the potential of being the best, but could be worse. The ipod basically sends a uncompressed digital stream to the head unit/stereo. The HU then uses its own DA converter to convert the info to analog and play. This will provide the only lossless communication from ipod to stereo, and if the DA converter is as good or better than the ipods, it will be better quality.

The DA converter is a big deal. For instance, you can read reviews of the new ipod shuffle, and how much better it sounds than old ipod shuffle. This is because the DA converter in the new shuffle is better, producing better quality sound. Typically, the more you miniaturize, and lower cost, the worse the DA converter will be. For instance, the DA converter in my DENON AVR 3808CI is going to be much better than the one in the shuffle, and also better than the one in my iphone.

[philwsailz]

Wow...

Rag, I was unaware of the 24/96 thing. GOOD TO KNOW!!! Thanks for jumping in here, you have taught this speakers and amps guy something today for sure!

BTW, (this is not an advertisement) the newer Sony head units have the newer USB connection instead of the iPod cable.

[Matt Garcia]

Dang my head unit and WS-420 only has auxiliary connections. Playing on the iPhone aux cable doesn't sound bad at all but I cant definitely tell when a CD is played. With a CD inserted I don't have to turn it up as much.

However my iPhone is like my second wallet, that thing is always on me.

tige' - didn't mean to take over your thread!

Good info, thanks for the replies everyone.

[da.bell]

Wow...

Rag, I was unaware of the 24/96 thing. GOOD TO KNOW!!! Thanks for jumping in here, you have taught this speakers and amps guy something today for sure!

BTW, (this is not an advertisement) the newer Sony head units have the newer USB connection instead of the iPod cable.

Kenwood also offers HU's with the USB connections also

[ragboy]

This will help.

http://www.sendstation.com/us/produc...neout-usb.html

The main thing will be to NOT use the headphone jack. The headphone jack is bad to connect from because the sound is colored to sound good from your headphones. And also any EQ setting you have and such on your ipod. If you connect via the LINE OUT, it will bypass the EQ and stuff, and just send out pure line level analog audio. So basically, this little adapter, is a way to get a dock adapter type line out connection, but yet still use auxilliary jack.