My speakers whine!

[SPBFAN]

OK, here is what I found out. All of the Clarion and Sony boat/marine decks have this issue. They say in there spec books 2V. They have been put on a bench and tested. The reality is they are only producing 500MV or less. The newer the deck the lesser the voltage. The newest Clarion just released has only 200MV even less than the older decks.

Now knowing that this is a good reason for a line driver. I know for a fact that after putting in my line driver it made a huge difference and improved the systems clarity and removed a ton of distortion as well as I turned my gains below half way up on the WS420.

Now the WS420 is a great EQ. However it took some major engineering to add the talk back Mic. As we all know I think the saying goes (where there is an action there must be an opposite reaction) I am not sure I said the right though.

So the more you increase the gains on the EQ the more sensitive it is going to be because there is so much going on internally to manage the Mic. This is where the line driver becomes important. It allows you to decrease the line driver in the EQ allowing the EQ to do its job and Equalize the system. Also By adding the line driver in front of the WS420 you have no need to turn up the gains keep them low and as a result get rid of noise.

The last time I talked with WetSounds they are now shipping the EQ preset for that very reason. However I am sure they will now get volume complaints. In that case I would suggest adding a line driver. It will for sure clean the system up. It did on my system. I left the volume control at the same position on my EQ and did not touch it. I plugged in straight from the Deck. It was an average comfortable volume for sitting in the driveway with out blasting out my neighbors. I then switched it around and put the line driver in. It was to loud and I needed to turn it down so I would not bother my neighbors. Not only was it that much louder it was an un- distorted very clean crisp sound. So I am at this point a very Strong advocate for this line driver. I know it is another component in the system. But finding out what I have found out it is also a necessary item.

[SPBFAN]

I just read tall last post. I wonder what the output on the Ipod is. If you are getting better cleaner volume from that I wonder if it is higher than the decks outputs? Just a thought.

[philwsailz]

I just read tall last post. I wonder what the output on the Ipod is. If you are getting better cleaner volume from that I wonder if it is higher than the decks outputs? Just a thought.

My thought too; in general MP3 players have quite a bit of output at the headphone outputs. So much in fact that many times it clips the AUX input of whatever it is connected to.

My reasoning for the earlier volume control question is that if the volume control from the head is not optimized to its loudest cleanest range for system setup, it will be noisy.

If the head's volume control is at half or less, the WS420 is having to amplify a bunch of noise, along with the program material...

[Fast1911]

[xpjim1]

Phil
If I have a total of 3 turn on wires do I connect them directly to the relay or can I tie them all in amp # 1 and distribute. Does it matter?

[wetsounds1]

SPBFAN,

Since the WS-420 is a line driver it self. It seems that adding an additional line driver is not needed. But if it worked on your system by adding a line driver before it and not really using the line driver in the 420, and you are happy with it. I would say if it aint broke don't fix it.

I would say that most systems will not need anything except the built in line driver in the 420. The reason we started setting the 420's at half is becuase we had too many consumer installs having the line driver gain up with the amp gains up as well. And that is where the gain hiss comes from. Improperly set gains.

I actually tune the gains on my 420 about 3/4 of the way up as I prefer to have more line voltage coming from the line driver and the gains on the amps barely up. Which is the right way to do it.

But what happens a lot of times is too small of an amp with the gains on the amp also maxed out to try to over compensate for the lack of power. So the gain structure is not at unity and the system is then open for noise and hiss.

It is easier for most to install the line driver half way and then their gains on their amps can be up a bit. Not the right way but the real world way. So if someone wants to take the time to tune the system like you did. They should set the gains on the 420 up a bit higher and then the amp gains will not have to be up much. And there will be no hiss.

The latest production of the 420, we lowered the line driver to 5 volts as that is all is really needed for most systems anyway. As another way to make it easier to tune.

Tim
Wet Sounds

[philwsailz]

Phil
If I have a total of 3 turn on wires do I connect them directly to the relay or can I tie them all in amp # 1 and distribute. Does it matter?

If I understand correctly, and you have three devices to turn on, either way is fine. It is the same electrically in this instance either way.

[SPBFAN]

If I understand correctly, and you have three devices to turn on, either way is fine. It is the same electrically in this instance either way.

I set mine up with three leads coming of the head unit.

[talltigeguy]

Do you use the WS420 for the primary stereo volume control or are you trying to use the H/U's volume control?

I usually turn the HU up about %80 of the way (27 out of 33 total, who picked such a stupid number for the voume to end at anyway?) and then use the 420 to control the volume with. With that being the case, I get gain hiss at an amplifier gain setting any more than 1/4 of the way up. I have to turn the gain on the EQ all the way up to make the system loud enough. With the IPod, the EQ input gains are at a little over half and the system is louder and clearer than the HU. Same amp settings, of course. (For those just casually reading this thread, the 420 has separate gains for HU input and MP3 player input).

[philwsailz]

I usually turn the HU up about %80 of the way (27 out of 33 total, who picked such a stupid number for the voume to end at anyway?) and then use the 420 to control the volume with. With that being the case, I get gain hiss at an amplifier gain setting any more than 1/4 of the way up. I have to turn the gain on the EQ all the way up to make the system loud enough. With the IPod, the EQ input gains are at a little over half and the system is louder and clearer than the HU. Same amp settings, of course. (For those just casually reading this thread, the 420 has separate gains for HU input and MP3 player input).

Ideally you want the amp gains as low as possible. Gain controls at the amp are not volume controls, (I know you know that).

Gain controls are specifically there so you can adjust all the components so that they are at their best setting; as Tim referred to it, "UNITY GAIN"

Every component in the audio chain has its best signal to noise ratio at a point just below where it clips. The music signal is way louder than the idle noise, at its maximum amplitude level, but the music signal is not clipping. If you make every component clip at the same time, you will be basically at UNITY GAIN.


If you find that you are turning the AMPLIFIER gains up at the amp because you think the system is not loud enough, you probably need to check a couple of other things. Is your fader control on your head unit turned way forwards or rearwards? Depending on which RCA outputs you are using, you might have the radio faded the wrong way.


Again, gain controls are not there to adjust volume. Setting them at only a quarter-way open is really desirable! As TIm pointed out, if you are running a really hot signal out of the WS420, you can get away with barely turning the amp gains on. If you are looking for more volume and you are playing with amplifier gains, you need to look elsewhere first.

[talltigeguy]

Ideally you want the amp gains as low as possible. Gain controls at the amp are not volume controls, (I know you know that).

Gain controls are specifically there so you can adjust all the components so that they are at their best setting; as Tim referred to it, "UNITY GAIN"

Every component in the audio chain has its best signal to noise ratio at a point just below where it clips. The music signal is way louder than the idle noise, at its maximum amplitude level, but the music signal is not clipping. If you make every component clip at the same time, you will be basically at UNITY GAIN.


If you find that you are turning the AMPLIFIER gains up at the amp because you think the system is not loud enough, you probably need to check a couple of other things. Is your fader control on your head unit turned way forwards or rearwards? Depending on which RCA outputs you are using, you might have the radio faded the wrong way.


Again, gain controls are not there to adjust volume. Setting them at only a quarter-way open is really desirable! As TIm pointed out, if you are running a really hot signal out of the WS420, you can get away with barely turning the amp gains on. If you are looking for more volume and you are playing with amplifier gains, you need to look elsewhere first.

The CMD4 has RCA outs that are front, rear and non-fadable. I plugged into the non-fadable output. I got the brilliant idea just now to try the other outputs and see what happens. In theory, they should all be the same if the HU is working correctly and not faded.

Maybe I need a line driver for my line driver...

[chpthril]

The CMD4 has RCA outs that are front, rear and non-fadable. I plugged into the non-fadable output. I got the brilliant idea just now to try the other outputs and see what happens. In theory, they should all be the same if the HU is working correctly and not faded.

Maybe I need a line driver for my line driver...

I dont have a CMD4 manual at my finger tips, but I think the Non-Fade is adjustable, I'll check in the am when I get out of the recliner

[philwsailz]

I dont have a CMD4 manual at my finger tips, but I think the Non-Fade is adjustable, I'll check in the am when I get out of the recliner

If it is adjustable, max it out if you can without clipping!


yay team!

[talltigeguy]

The manual does not say jack crap about the RCA outputs...but I would assume that non-fadable means, well, non-fadable.

[philwsailz]

The manual does not say jack crap about the RCA outputs...but I would assume that non-fadable means, well, non-fadable.

The normal assumption is that the non-fading output would be used to drive a sub amp..