another speaker/amp/wireing question.

[Waterski-Rebel]

In case you didn't see my other post, I am going to install some Kicker RS6 tower speakers on my boat, I am also planning on installing a Kicker 350.2 amp. I believe chpthril said this was a good match, but now I'm a little confused, because I was thinking about some wetsounds for a while.

So, is this a good match?

Also, what gauge (AWG) speaker wire do I need? I have a spool of 16 AWG, but not sure if that's big enough. The speakers themselves appear to have 16 AWG coming out of them, and I will be connecting to those, but wanted to make sure it was ok to use 16.

thanks for everyone's help.

[chpthril]

I'm not sure of the specs of the RS6's but still believe the ZX350.2 is the way to go, hopefully Phil can provide more info on them.

Run 12ga speaker wire.

[Waterski-Rebel]

chpthril - thanks for the help!

One last question (I hope). I just looked at the speaker wire that is coming out of the cans. It looks more like 18 AWG, then 16, it's much thinner then the 16 that I currently have. I can't change this, because this wire is permanant. If I go with 12, is that ok with it dropping down that much 6" away from the speakers?

I also found some 14 that is designed to go in walls (it's double shielded). It would be nice to use what I already have, but will go buy new if that's what is best.

[talltigeguy]

You can see I started another thread with a similar question/comment.

Some of what determines the speaker wire size need is the length of the run. A longer run needs a bigger wire. If the 6 inches is permanent, then you are stuck with that, and being that it is 6 inches only, you are probably fine.

Go to www.bcae1.com and then on the right side scroll down to #16 'wire' and read that. Most guys way overbuild their systems in terms of the size of speaker wire, but they argue that things are better that way despite the use of science to prove to the contrary.

I guess it is kind of look book smarts vs. street smarts.

[Waterski-Rebel]

According to that page, 18ga will drop me .54 db, 16ga will drop .34db, 14ga will drop .22db, and 12 ga will drop .14db. It also says, anything under 1 db is fine. This would also tell me that I am safe with the 16 ga wire, but being that I already have some 14ga, maybe I should use that.

Also, after a little more research, I have Kicker KBC speakers http://www.titanwake.com/speakers.html. They are very similar to the RS6's, but can handle 130 watts, instead of 110. The 350.2 does 110 watts, while the 450.2
does 150 watts. Do I want to bump up to the 450, or should I stick with the 350?

Sorry for all of the questions, I've never done this before.

[chpthril]

According to that page, 18ga will drop me .54 db, 16ga will drop .34db, 14ga will drop .22db, and 12 ga will drop .14db. It also says, anything under 1 db is fine. This would also tell me that I am safe with the 16 ga wire, but being that I already have some 14ga, maybe I should use that.

Also, after a little more research, I have Kicker KBC speakers http://www.titanwake.com/speakers.html. They are very similar to the RS6's, but can handle 130 watts, instead of 110. The 350.2 does 110 watts, while the 450.2
does 150 watts. Do I want to bump up to the 450, or should I stick with the 350?

Sorry for all of the questions, I've never done this before.

On the amp and speaker question: I dont know if that advertised "130 Watts" is a max or the continuous (RMS) watts. My gut says it's the Max Watts the speaker can handle. PM Phil and see if he was able to find some more info on these, if he hasn't already answered the amp/speaker match up.

As far as speaker wire goes, I like to run 12ga for all of them, except subs, for a couple of reasons. 1st, electrical charts give you a "Minimum" gauge wire based on length and current draw. 2nd, I average about 25' of wire per speaker on a tower setup and 12ga gives the least amount of added resistance per ft. 3rd, you will not need to upgrade wiring (rewire tower) if you were to upgrade speakers. Adding more is a different story.

[talltigeguy]

On the amp and speaker question: I dont know if that advertised "130 Watts" is a max or the continuous (RMS) watts. My gut says it's the Max Watts the speaker can handle. PM Phil and see if he was able to find some more info on these, if he hasn't already answered the amp/speaker match up.

As far as speaker wire goes, I like to run 12ga for all of them, except subs, for a couple of reasons. 1st, electrical charts give you a "Minimum" gauge wire based on length and current draw. 2nd, I average about 25' of wire per speaker on a tower setup and 12ga gives the least amount of added resistance per ft. 3rd, you will not need to upgrade wiring (rewire tower) if you were to upgrade speakers. Adding more is a different story.

Sometimes running speaker wire is a painful experience, so CHP makes a good point to run the bigger stuff because you or the next guy might want to get some big guns up there some day.

Keep in mind also that the decibel decrease may be very little, but that energy that is lost, is lost as heat. I have not heard of anyone melting properly wired speaker wire, but that is the argument I got when I suggested that such large wire was not needed.

[chpthril]

^^^ Yeah, melting speaker wire is not as big a concern as molten lava power wires.

[dogbert]

Keep in mind also that the decibel decrease may be very little, but that energy that is lost, is lost as heat. I have not heard of anyone melting properly wired speaker wire, but that is the argument I got when I suggested that such large wire was not needed.

Yes, but you'd be contributing to global warming

[DieselPWR]

You can see I started another thread with a similar question/comment.

Some of what determines the speaker wire size need is the length of the run. A longer run needs a bigger wire. If the 6 inches is permanent, then you are stuck with that, and being that it is 6 inches only, you are probably fine.

Go to www.bcae1.com and then on the right side scroll down to #16 'wire' and read that. Most guys way overbuild their systems in terms of the size of speaker wire, but they argue that things are better that way despite the use of science to prove to the contrary.

I guess it is kind of look book smarts vs. street smarts.

Thats a pretty cool site. I had to drop from 12 gauge to 16 to be able to run 4 wires through my tower and was worried it was too small, but it looks like it is pretty negligible.

[Waterski-Rebel]

I have sent Phil a PM to make sure everything is sized ok, and I am leaning towards going with the 14 AWG. I have it, it's double shielded (not that it matters in a boat), and it's a happy medium between 12 and 16.

I am also thinking about buying some clamps for those lights that came with the speakers. DIYWake has them for $19 each. At that price, I think I need to go ahead and install them too. I am almost afraid to ask but does it matter what type of wire I use for the lights? They currently have 16 AWG coming out of them, and I will be tieing 4 lights into one wire. Should I drop down to 14 AWG? Also, can I hook all 4 lights up to an unused acc switch? I know I'll have to put a fuse in too. Should this be a 10 amp fuse?

One last question. Do all of the wires (speaker, lights, amp power, etc..) need to be run in that flexible duct/tube?

I have today off, and am planning on running some wire, and getting things ready for the amp.

[philwsailz]

I have been able to dig up a little info.

The speakers are going to have an RMS power recommendation at 65 watts. The 130 advertised by Titan was peak.

The 350.2 amplifier will be quite acceptable for the application, if not a little overkill. It will however be an excellent amplifier for future needs if you by chance go bigger in the future.

As for the speaker wire, I will (within reason) recommend you put in as large a wire as you can when you install it. The upgrade potential is there for you, and it is nice to have wire in place that will handle future needs.

14 gage is a fairly easy pull, if you have it go for it. 12 gage will be a little better, but know that some people cannot hear a sound change of even 2 dB. The differences cited above are VERY negligible. To me, we can throw the pure science out sometimes and take a look at feasibility, practicality, ease of install, and cost. Make a good balanced decision based on these concerns, and the potential for future upgrade.

Lastly, in your PM, you ask about power wire. This is the one where I am ABSOLUTELY a stickler, as it relates SO MUCH to safety, for you, your passengers, and your boat. Use proper power wire, sized and installed correctly.

The ZX350.2 is set up for 8 gage power wire. This is a boat, so you have a lot longer ground wire run for the amp than if you were putting the amp in a car. Do not go cheap in a boat on power wire. Use at least the recommended 8 gage wire, do not use 10.

You need to install a circuit breaker or a fuse right at the battery too, in order to protect the power wire in the event of a short. The amp has a potential to pull 50 amps of current, so the fuse at the battery can be between 50 amps and 75 amps for this one amplifier.

I hit a lot of points, but hopefully have addressed your questions.

Good luck!

[chpthril]

I have sent Phil a PM to make sure everything is sized ok, and I am leaning towards going with the 14 AWG. I have it, it's double shielded (not that it matters in a boat), and it's a happy medium between 12 and 16.

I am also thinking about buying some clamps for those lights that came with the speakers. DIYWake has them for $19 each. At that price, I think I need to go ahead and install them too. I am almost afraid to ask but does it matter what type of wire I use for the lights? They currently have 16 AWG coming out of them, and I will be tieing 4 lights into one wire. Should I drop down to 14 AWG? Also, can I hook all 4 lights up to an unused acc switch? I know I'll have to put a fuse in too. Should this be a 10 amp fuse?

One last question. Do all of the wires (speaker, lights, amp power, etc..) need to be run in that flexible duct/tube?

I have today off, and am planning on running some wire, and getting things ready for the amp.

Not really. The only places that I use wire loom is when the wires are visible and the loom makes the install look so much cleaner, or where there is a potential for the wire to rub through on something. Other then that, I use a lot of zip ties and wire clamps.

[Waterski-Rebel]

I thought I would give everyone a quick update.

I went to run the 2 14 AWG speaker cables, and 2 10 AWG power cables for the lights today. I barely was able to get the two speaker cables through the hole, and deicded to give up on the lights. (Anyone want to buy 4 55w lights?).

Things were going well, then I found out my tower is blocked in the middle, and you can't push wire through the whole thing. Well, I had already pre-drilled four 1/2 inch holes (2 for the speakers, and 2 for the lights), so I ended up pulling the wire back out of the tower, and running it to the next hole, and back in. I really don't like the way it looks, but at this point I don't have much of a choice.

I just ordered the 8 AWG power wire for the amp, and the ZX350.2 from ebay. Hopfully they will be here by next weekend.

When they do get here, I should be able to hook everything up.

One last question (actually 2). Does it matter what type of wire I use for the RCA --> RCA ports for the amp? Can I pull something from my home stereo, or do I need something much thicker? Also, the blue wire for the remote that goes from the stereo to the amp, will normal 16 (or 18) AWG wire work for that?

[dogbert]

One last question (actually 2). Does it matter what type of wire I use for the RCA --> RCA ports for the amp? Can I pull something from my home stereo, or do I need something much thicker? Also, the blue wire for the remote that goes from the stereo to the amp, will normal 16 (or 18) AWG wire work for that?

Not really, although I'd make sure you get something that's shielded pretty well.