HELP - Kicker Amp with Wetsounds Pro 80s & 60s

[DieselPWR]

They are not putting and amp one the cabin speakers, they say the tower speakers will drown them out anyway. I don t believe that.

[chpthril]

They are not putting and amp one the cabin speakers, they say the tower speakers will drown them out anyway. I don t believe that.

Wrong, the Wet/Sounds ws650's will be very loud and clear with/without an amp driving them because the Wet Sounds Tower speakers will not filter down into the boat too much as they are very directional as designed. Make no mistake, you will hear them in the boat.

A very popular config seems to be: cabin speakers and sub driven separately from tower speakers. The riders will never hear the base, but it tends to get on your nerves of those in the boat with only the tower speakers screaming away. I like to fade down the cabins and sub and crank the towers while I have a rider in tow. You wont be able to do this without the cabins on an amp.

Just my but remember, this is your system, not the dealers, do what YOU want with it, not he.

[philwsailz]

Okay, three pages in one evening! WOW!!!!!

I need to go back and re-read everything, but a few points:

* I believe you need more power than the 700.5 will deliver for the towers.
* The 700.5 is ideal for in-boat speakers
* The subwoofer amplifier in the 700.5 is perfect for the CVR woofer
* If you do not use the 700.5 use a dedicated sub amp like the ZX400.1
* You will probably find that you want an amp on your in-boat speakers


I will not speak for all marine amps, as the level of marinizing differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. I can speak to the KICKER marine amps though.

ZX series automotive amplifiers hold up pretty well in a fresh-water trailer-boat install. Mounting and location is key, (for any amp by the way). The MX amplifiers take it a big step further, as they are not just car amps painted white, (notice they are not white??).

The amps have an aggressive conformal coating schedule to ensure that all of the metal circuit components are sealed, not only from spray and splash, but sealed against environmental humidity as well. You cannot get away from environmental humidity by mounting the amp high and dry in a water-tight compartment!

The amp assembly is gasketed between all seams which could be a point of moisture entry; RCA inputs are of the closed terminal type, the remote bass control cable is terminated in a water resistant plug system... I can go on, but the point is that KICKER went a long way to design and implement features to prevent water from getting into the amplifer.

The power and speaker terminals may seem old-school, but as members of the ABYC and the NMMA, Kicker recognized the need to deliver an amplifier that would meet specific safety criteria as it relates to wiring and termination. The KICKER marine amplifiers are designed to be used with a crimped-on ring terminal power connection; the same one that is connected at the other end to the battery. This method of termination is the preferred method identified in both U.S.Coast Guard and ABYC documentation.

Lastly, in terms of convenience, the KICKER marine amplifiers take convenience to a new level. The input gain, crossover, and bass boost controls all exist on the front of the amp; they are very easy to get to and adjust when installed in the typically cramped environment that is a boat. Additionally, once the controls are set, there is a gasketed cover for the controls. This cover further prevents water ingress, and prevents accidental readjustment of the controls by stuff which might bang into them while the boat is under way. Finally, the cover ALSO prevents that "sound expert" buddy of yours, (who has gained his "brown-bottle-expert ears " over the course of the day) from getting in there and jacking with your settings you so carefully worked to get set up.

If I have missed a question, please be sure to let me know!

[Timmy!]

Timmy,

Take a look at the zx550.2 for your Pro 60's.

Thanks! That's a huge amp (physical size)....

[chpthril]

I have a question that I dont think has been asked or answered. A little to this thread, but still audio related.


How can we estimate the Watts RMS for an amp, when the specs are given for a 2ohm load, when most speakers are 4ohm

Lets use the 700.5 as an example: 85w RMS x 4 @ 2ohms.

As laymen, how do we determine, + or - a few watts, what the output would be with a 4ohm driver.

Thanks

[chpthril]

Thanks! That's a huge amp (physical size)....

Dam, your right Phil, is the ZX550 really 20"?

OK, look at the ZX350.4, run it bridged and it will be about the same output, but it is only 13". I have installed this set up on 2 boats so far.

ZX350.4 = 175w RMS x 2 @ 4ohm

[philwsailz]

I have a question that I dont think has been asked or answered. A little to this thread, but still audio related.


How can we estimate the Watts RMS for an amp, when the specs are given for a 2ohm load, when most speakers are 4ohm

Lets use the 700.5 as an example: 85w RMS x 4 @ 2ohms.

As laymen, how do we determine, + or - a few watts, what the output would be with a 4ohm driver.

Thanks

I started to address that in the post above, but it would have resulted in too big a post.

Research the amp in question and find its specs, as measured by CEA-2006 guidelines. This is the "level playing field" that most of the industry agreed to a few, (less than 10) years ago. This spec is the most honest and realistic measure of an amplifiers REAL power into 4-ohms under real world conditions.

According to CEA:
The KICKER ZX700.5 delivers 70x4 and 210x1 into a 4 ohm load.
The KICKER MX700.5 delivers the same power.

NEVER compare amplifiers based on PEAK POWER ratings. Those peak power ratings just really do not tell you anything. I see 1000w amps for $99.95 sometimes; it is just unlikely they can deliver the goods... If you cannot find CEA2006 documentation for any amplifier you are considering, remove it from your search; the manufacturer is either lying or trying to hide something.


NOTE: while the math suggests that power doubles when you add a speaker in parallel, the truth is that for virtually every 2-ohm stable amp it does not go fully 2x. There are losses associated with operating an amp at a lower impedance. That is why the ZX700.5 can

[philwsailz]

Dam, your right Phil, is the ZX550 really 20"?

OK, look at the ZX350.4, run it bridged and it will be about the same output, but it is only 13". I have installed this set up on 2 boats so far.

ZX350.4 = 175w RMS x 2 @ 4ohm

Big torroids, Big output devices, Big capacitors....

Real world reliable power.... There is a reason KICKER amps are that big; there are not shortcuts, or parts not up to the task. It is that big because the parts in it are that good.

We all know my mantra by now; I do not like bridging. If you cannot use an amp bigger than 13" I understand, but the 550.2 operating into a pair of four ohm loads is going to be happier then the 350.4 bridged stereo in my opinion.

[chpthril]

Thanks.

I see those 4ohm specs, now, they are in the manual, just not in the online description.

[chpthril]

Big torroids, Big output devices, Big capacitors....

Real world reliable power.... There is a reason KICKER amps are that big; there are not shortcuts, or parts not up to the task. It is that big because the parts in it are that good.

We all know my mantra by now; I do not like bridging. If you cannot use an amp bigger than 13" I understand, but the 550.2 operating into a pair of four ohm loads is going to be happier then the 350.4 bridged stereo in my opinion.

The 450.2 is only 16" and shows to be 150W RMS x 2 @ 4ohm. This looks like a good compromise for space, power, and no bridging. whatcha think?

[philwsailz]

The 450.2 is only 16" and shows to be 150W RMS x 2 @ 4ohm. This looks like a good compromise for space, power, and no bridging. whatcha think?

what are we trying to power?

I know the 450.2 is the defacto choice for a pair of the KICKER KMT6 speakers....

[chpthril]

That 700.5 is on ok amp, that's what my boat came with to power the entire thing (no tower speakers), not the worlds most powerful amp but it might get the job done. I have a Kicker 150.2 now (I think) powering the Pro 60's and I think I am going to go with either another one of those and run 1 per speaker or go with a 300.2 or larger.

what are we trying to power?

I know the 450.2 is the defacto choice for a pair of the KICKER KMT6 speakers....

I was responding to Timmy's amp selection for a pair of Pro 60's.

[wetsounds1]

Wow. Just got a chance to see these..

Dieselpwr, E mail gyver@wetsounds.com And get him your contact at the dealer. He will work with them so they make the right choice on your boat. It seems there is some education in order. It is no fault, just education. As a lot of dealers or installers that may not be familiar with our speakers, don't fully understand what power is really needed.

The biggest issue we run into on a daily basis is this same problem. under powered amp. Wrong power for the application.

As Phil said. The 700.5 is good for the in boats and sub and that is really what that style of amp is designed for.

Matching the RMS ratings as close as you can is key. So for the PRO 60's 150 watts rms, for the PRO 80's 200 watts RMS. Although both do fine with a bit less, 100 to 125 for the 60's or 150 for the PRO 80's etc....

As chptril said, look at the system on how you want to us it. Most will want to do either a 5 ch amp for in boats and sub with another amp for the tower. Or 3 amps, one in boat, one sub and one tower etc...You can then add the WS-420. This gives you seperate volume of the tower and the boat and seperate eq for tower and boat as well as micrphone etc....So there is no fading etc....This is how most people use their systems.

It is all about flexibility.

Let me know if there is anything we missed as I am not sure what has been answered already etc...

Tim
Wet Sounds

But

[philwsailz]

I was responding to Timmy's amp selection for a pair of Pro 60's.

PRO60 is 4 ohms with 150 WRMS power handling

The ZX450.2 is the perfect amp for that!

CEA2006 output is 150RMS for the ZX450.2

[DieselPWR]

thanks wetsounds1 and philwsailz, i appreciate your help.

so if I am sticking with kicker amps should i be looking to do the 700.5 for the in cabin speaks and sub and then do like a 850.4 or 650.4 for the two sets of tower speakers? I believe the 850.4 puts out 170 X 4 at 4 ohms and the 650.4 does 120 X 4 at 4 ohms.