System check in new boat

[Bigdog0598]

So i just got a new RZ2 and the dealer upgraded the system, but i think it may be under powered, let me know what you think and if i should add an amp or anything.

2 - Samson S9HD
2 - Samson S7HD
Those are powered by a Alpine PDX F6, so 4 channel amp w/150 going to each RMS

8 - Wetsounds XS65i
All of those are also powdered Alpine PDX F6.

1 - 12" Alpine woofer, not sure which one
Powered by a PDX M6

It sounds good, but it did get a bit distorted when i turned it way up, so not sure if that is b/c it is under powered or i turned it up to much.

I have no idea what the ohm and frequencies are set at, so any advice on that would be great as well!

[chpthril]

The only thing that got upgraded was from a 10 to 12 inch sub. Eveything else is a step down.

2 - Samson S9HD
2 - Samson S7HD
Those are powered by a Alpine PDX F6, so 4 channel amp w/150 going to each RMS

Trade this mix match of different size speakers for a single pair of Factory Wet Sounds Rev-10. Deeper mid-bass extension, more output for a warmer near-field SQ. The PDX F6 would deliver 300W rms to each in 2 chnl mode

8 - Wetsounds XS65i
All of those are also powdered Alpine PDX F6.

The factory offering is 6 XS-650. The 65i is a great speaker, but for sure its a step back from the 650 series.

1 - 12" Alpine woofer, not sure which one
Powered by a PDX M6

600W rms to a 12" sub is a good solid combo if the sub is in an enclosure. Alpine doesnt make a true IB sub.

It sounds good, but it did get a bit distorted when i turned it way up, so not sure if that is b/c it is under powered or i turned it up to much.

I have no idea what the ohm and frequencies are set at, so any advice on that would be great as well!

Could be the music source, gain levels or cross-over filter settings.

[Bigdog0598]

maybe they are xs-650, don't know, i'm sure they left the 4 factory ones and then added 4 more, so probably xs650. The woofer is in a box under the front seat.

Really the samson are a downgrade? using 2 sizes is bad? Is it underpowered right now the way it is?

What should i set my fain and filters at?

[chpthril]

Really the samson are a downgrade?

You have a pair of 6.5" HLCDs and a pair of 8" HLCDs. From the factory, you can get a pair of 10" HLCDs. No amount of smaller speakers will produce the mid-bass off a larger speaker. For about the same battery current draw, you can get a speaker with a larger mid-bass driver, larger compression driver voice coil for a combo with a much smoother near-field sound quality with no loss at the wake range.

using 2 sizes is bad?

Its not that its bad, its just that when powered properly, the larger speaker dominates the smaller. This can make the contribution of the smaller speaker, not worth the battery current its drawing, not to mention the cost of the speakers and amp to drive it. Put that investment into the larger, more efficient speaker.

Is it underpowered right now the way it is?

Depends on your expectations and use. For a surf setup, no, but I would prefer 2 pair of the coaxial SMT9q or Wet Sounds Icon-8, over a smaller HLCD like the 9HD. For wake range, 150W rms to an 8" HLCD is a little light. 200-250 for the S9HD with its smaller 1.5: voice coil or 250-300 to the Rev-8 with its larger 2" voice coil. The 10" Rev-10 is top shelf for both surf/party cove sound quality and wake range projection

[Bigdog0598]

so if i were to change them, but 2 rev 10's i assume i could sell these, but as far as the wiring goes, how is that to change? I've never done anything like this, if it wired in series how do you change that and brige the amp, everything is in a connector.

[Bigdog0598]

fyi, this is all already installed on the boat sitting in my drive way.

[Bigdog0598]

What about changing the sd7 to a smt65?

[chpthril]

Although the dome tweeter of the smt65 and the compression driver of the s9hd are intended to reproduce a similar frequency range, they will not do it the same. You will hear that difference. As noted before, the larger more efficient speaker will always dominate the smaller speaker.

There is no replacement for displacement, or surface area when it comes to speakers.

[Bigdog0598]

Ok, we'll if I didn't want to go that far as of yet, considering I just got it lol, what about changing the tower amp to say the 2ch harpoon amp from excile, would they sound better with that? How hard it it to take 4 channel and combine into 2 channel

[Bigdog0598]

When you are under powering a speaker what does that due, I'd concider running 150 on a 250 under powered right?

[chpthril]

When you are under powering a speaker what does that due, I'd concider running 150 on a 250 under powered right?

With all else being correct, when a speaker is under powered, it really only limits its ability to play loud, to a point. The biggest issue with under powered speakers, is when the amp and source unit it driven into a state of distortion, or clipped signal, because we cant get the volume we desire. Sufficient wattage to a speaker allows for the speaker to reach its potential, while the volume dial is at a lower point. It also allows for a lower gain setting on the amp, which lowers the noise floor and lets the amp run more conservatively. Its the difference between a V8 Benz and a 4 cyl Opel on the autobahn. That big V8 is going to cruise along with traffic with plenty of power in reserve, while the 4-banger is running wide open, just to keep up. Credit Phil from Kicker with this one

So, if you are a hard core wake-boarder, your tower setup is under powered IMO. If you are more into surfing and the party cove scene, yes, the speaker can handle more power, but they are not as under powered do to your needs.

I am considering maybe upgrading the tower amp if it would make it sound better

This question/statement was part of your WW post, so I wanted to answer it here.

Those Alpine PDX amps are solid amps and will deliver good sound quality. Unless you are constantly driving the amp into clip mode, then a new amp will do little to improve sound quality, in other words, make it sound better.

First and foremost, make sure you have quality music sources, make sure the head-unit settings are not way out to the limits: LOUD, BASS, TREBLE, custom EQ settings, etc. These all need to be off and flat. Make sure the amp is setup and tuned properly. This is the only way to make what you have sound better.

Beyond the above, I would ask the dealer to buy back the small 6.5" HLCD S7HD's and run the 8" S9HD's alone on the amp in 2 chnl mode. You would be surprised what a difference there will be by taking those small HLCDs out of the loop. They lack mid-bass to balance out the aggressive compression driver.

The ideal, would be to have the dealer trade you a pair of Rev-10 from Tige, for both pairs of the 7HDs and 9HDs. This would improve the sound quality the most.

Ok, we'll if I didn't want to go that far as of yet, considering I just got it lol, what about changing the tower amp to say the 2ch harpoon amp from excile, would they sound better with that? How hard it it to take 4 channel and combine into 2 channel

For less money, the Wet Sounds Syn-2 will deliver nearly the same wattage as the harpoon, its 50% more efficient in terms of battery consumption and is actually a marine amp. But, there are 2 down sides to going this route. 1) Im not a fan of wiring different sized or different types of speakers together on a single amp chnl. Going from a 2 pair on a 4 chn to 2 pair on a 2 chnl, this is what would be need to be done. When you do this, you have to tune for the smaller speaker, which ends up being a compromise. 2) the 2 ohm by 2 output of the Harpoon would not be much more power then what each speaker is getting right now. The slight increase would not be an audible difference.

[Bigdog0598]

Wow! Thx for the info! So I checked the rms and both are 250, currently being ran at 150, the reason I asked about the harpoon is bc they have a couple demos for $200 on there site, so seemed good for the price, but in don't know how it effect my batteries since I only have 2 and have 3 amps on it. And then do you not like the hybrid set up? If you do 2 of the 9" surf style speakers with 2 of the 9"hcld speakers or do you really think 2 rev10's would be better then 4 speakers run at the right amp

[chpthril]

Thx for the info! So I checked the rms and both are 250, currently being ran at 150, the reason I asked about the harpoon is bc they have a couple demos for $200 on there site, so seemed good for the price,

I dont see an amp change being an improvement in this case, especially going from a 4 chnl to a 2 chnl with the given setup.

And then do you not like the hybrid set up? If you do 2 of the 9" surf style speakers with 2 of the 9"hcld speakers

With whats available today, if an 8" coaxial is needed to make an 8" HLCD sound good, you have to give pause! Thats a $2000 investment in speakers alone, where as a single pair of Rev-10 will get the job done for $1350 and thats with the swivel/disconnect option.

do you really think 2 rev10's would be better then 4 speakers run at the right amp

Absolutely. A single pair of Rev-10 bridged on your current amp @ 300W rms x 2, will deliver better sound quality then the current mix of 6.5" HLCDs and 8" HLCDs with each receiving 150W rms. Right now, you have a $1950 retail tower setup.

[Bigdog0598]

Ok thx so much man! Super helpful! I may just try and sell these and do that see when I take it out and play with it in the water as opposed to my driveway lol

[Bigdog0598]

so before i go an change everything, i know that it will sound better if i do, i went and played with all the tunings and found a bunch of wrong things, on the 4 channel going to the towers, they didn't have the 9's and 7's paired up, so 1 9 and 1 7 in chan 1 and 2, so i fixed that and reset the crossovers on the amps down to 85 for the 9's and 110 for the 7's, also the amp was set up to 120 hertz, so dropped that down to 80, now what i don't know is what to do on the 8 xs650, the crossovers are set at 110, is that right? Also there is a selection for off, HP and LP on the 4 chan amp, i assume that they should be off for the tower speakers and on hp for the interiors or off on the interiors?

I do plan on upgrading either the 7's to another set of 9's and adding more power to them or possible changing to the rev 10's, do the 8 interiors need more then 75rms to each or is that enough?

Also, my sub is an alpine type R 12" with 600 running to it, sounds good, not the loudest woofer on earth but decent.

Thanks for all the help, also changed all the gains, some were way to high and causing the clipping