My Kicker Upgrade and Questions!

[Stingreye]

I am going to put my questions in the second post and my pics and description in this post.

I decided I wanted to upgrade the Tower and I was mainly looking for a surf distance speaker setup.

I have met a couple guys from Kicker before and like them and the company so I wanted to go with some Kicker gear.

I took our resident stereo and Kicker guru Chpthril's advice and bought the Kicker KMT67
http://www.kicker.com/KMT67_Tower_System

The speakers fit great on the Tower with the bimini up. I think it actually is slightly more clearance than the Factory Wake Design Cans that came with my boat.
20140830_144640.jpg

I am certainly no audiophile but I basically kept all the amp settings identical and swapped out my other speakers. They sound great and I am very happy with it.
Currently they are powered with the Front Channels of my JL Audio 500/5 Amp (came with the boat) at 100W RMS x2 @ 4 ohm 11-14V (specs from amp manual).

I have also been wanting to swap out my factory in boat speakers because the grill's were showing their age. Originally, I was just going to swap out the grill if I could because I was very happy with how the speakers sounded. I saw this thread and decide to swap out for the Kicker LED speakers:
http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/...ounds-install/

For the record, I think the LED's are kind of a gimmick but at the same time, my daughters have had fun making the speakers pink and purple. The wiring and hook up of the Kicker LED controller was fairly easy. 4 wires, 1 for each color LED (RGB) + ground. The remote lets you control color (basically every combo you can make with the RGB), brightness although the difference between really bright and dim is minimal, and speed if you are using one of the pre-programmed "light shows". Light shows were actually fun to turn on, I wonder how much we will use it. We don't boat at night but you can see the LED's even during the daylight as you can tell from the pics.

two pair of the inboat are running on my JL Audio 300/4 amp at 75W RMS per channel at 4 ohms. The bow pair is running off the rear channel of my 500/5 amp at 25W RMS per channell at 4 ohms.

Couple pics of the LEDs.
box.jpg
box2.jpg
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20140901_175538.jpg

[Stingreye]

Question 1 -
The low Ohm light for my JL 500/5 has in the past lit up indicating a short or too low of Ohm. I had thought the problem might have been one of my tower speakers. Now, the light doesn't come on unless I have been playing the system for a while. Heat related? How do I go about testing the problem? Do I disconnect the speaker wires at the amp and see what makes the light stay off? Is this a sign my amp might have a failure? For the tower speakers there is a knob that controls volume to them in the helm. It looks like it has an RCA input and output that controls the volume. I think its before the amp so I don't think it would affect that ohm light coming on (again I know almost nothing about stereo stuff).

Question 2-
Is there a better setup for powering everything with what I have? I really know next to nothing about this stuff.

Currently running the following:
JL 500/5

Sub channel - 250W RMS x 1 @ 1.5 - 4ohm (11V - 14.5V)
250W to a JL Audio Sub - pretty sure its a 10" sub no idea on specs.

Front Channel
Rated Power (Stereo): 100W RMS x 2 @ 1.5 - 4 ohm (11V - 14.5V)
Rated Power (Bridged): 200W RMS x 1 @ 3 - 8 ohm (11V - 14.5V)
-Currently running 100W RMS x2 to my KMT67s
- KMT67 have 150W RMS @ 4 ohms

Rear Channel
Rated Power (Stereo): 25W RMS x 2 @ 3 - 4 Ohm(11V - 14.5V)
Rated Power (Bridged):50W RMS x 1 @ 6 - 8 Ohm(11V - 14.5V)
- Running Bow KM65s at 25W RMS x2


Second Amp JL Audio 300/4
Rated Power (Stereo):75W RMS x 4 @ 1.5-4 Ohm (11V - 14.5V)
Rated Power (Bridged):150W RMS x 2 @ 3-8 Ohm (11V - 14.5V)
- Runs 2 pairs of KM65 at 75W RMSx4 at 4 ohm
- KM65 have a 65W RMS at 4 Ohms


What if I run the KMT67 off the 300/4 Bridged? It would get me the 150W RMS.
Then I would have to run both pairs of KM65s in the cabin off the Front Channel of the 500/5. Would they get 50W each if run in parallel? Seems like Kicker's 800/5 would be sending 50W per channel at 4 ohms so it would be similar to the amp kicker would likely recommend.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

[chpthril]

Thats a Slash series 500/5, correct?

Can you see the back of the sub? If so, it could have a sticker that tells what its coil ohm configuration is. Thats really whats important right now.

[Stingreye]

I will check the Sub tonight for specs.

99% sure its the Slash 500/5 (also I think it fits the time frame as the previous owner put the stereo in spring 2004). It doesn't say slash on it but it says 500/5 and matches all pictures I have seen of the Slash series online and the manual seems to match. I will see if I can see a serial or something to confirm but all the specs I posted are from the slash 500/5 manual I found at the below link:

http://www.jlaudio.com/header/Suppor...Manuals/498080


Thanks Mike

[chpthril]

Question 1) Is it still the amber Ohm light thats illuminating after a period of hard play or the red thermal.

Amber light = Both the KMT67 on the front chnls and the KM654 on the rear chnls are well within the amp's nominal impedance range. A read of the slash manual, points to the amber low impedance light is tied to the front and sub chnls, but not the rear chnls driving the KM654. A tower speaker lead thats pinched by or chaffed on the tower, could cause this issue. Was the tower rewired with the new speakers, or was the existing wiring used?

Red thermal light = too small of a amp cabling, amp settings, low battery voltage, amp bolted directly to a carpeted wall are all some things can lead to a heated amp.

[Stingreye]

1) Yes, the yellow amber light is the ONLY light that has come on. Red has never lit up.

2) Tower was NOT rewired. Existing wiring was used.

Should I unplug the speaker wire at the amp for each channel until the light turns off? Can I do it while the amp is on or is that a big "no no"?

[Stingreye]

Sub = w0v2 10" 4 ohm
http://www.jlaudio.com/header/Suppor...Manuals/444604

300w rms.

Will try to check amp light now.

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[Stingreye]

Posting as I am working on it.

Turned it on played for a bit, no light.

Light kicked on about 15 min or so.

Here is the odd part. The amber led on power up (only on the 500/5) the amber light shines brightly then dims but stays on now. The 300/4 only the green power light lights up on power up.

I disconnected the speaker wires on the front channels and no change.

Although the dim vs bright amber led has me wondering if it is just light from the green light bleeding over. However, I could swear the light was completely off when I started.

I guess I will check the other channels by removing the wires at the amp and see if it changes.

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[Stingreye]

All speakers connected. Amber light flashes brightly on power up then goes dim but not off. I would chalk it up as light bleeding over from power led but
1) does not do it on the 300/4 2) 300/4 does not flash the amber light on power up.

I am too much of a stereo newbie to have any clue if it's always been operating at half power protect mode.

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[Stingreye]

Pic of light. On power on its as bright as the green one.

I will check the manual again tomorrow to see if it says anything about it.


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[Stingreye]

UPDATE FROM JL Support:

1) They don't show anything about a dim vs bright amber LED. Should be a bright light similar to how it is on power up.

2) Normally if the amp has failed with the light on they would expect some distortion, channels not working, or some noticeable difference.

3) I would need to scope it to check to see if its reducing power because it still produces clean sound even with the light on there is a good chance he thinks the amp is fine and outputing the correct power. I do have access to a scope at work.


When it first plays after being cold, there really isn't any difference in output before or after the light turns on (again not listening at high volume, I rarely crank it).

Gut feel is that it is operating ok and JL said it should be fairly obvious but is it worth scoping it?

[chpthril]

1) They don't show anything about a dim vs bright amber LED. Should be a bright light similar to how it is on power up.

So did they hint that its a malfunction protect mode, rather than an condition that actually warrants the protect mode?

I would also ohm out the speaker and sub leads as well as check to make neither the + or - leads are shorted to the tower.

Barring any amp issues. To answer the question about how to better use the gear. I would bridge the KMT67's on the 300/4 chnl, wire the bow pair to chnls 3 and 4 of the 500/5 and wire the 2 main cabin pair to chnls 1 and 2 of the 500/5. This gets you a bit more power to the tower setup, but also gets the sub and towers on different amp. These are two zones they tend to get worked the most. SO having the KMT76 on their own amp, reduces the load on the 500/5

[Stingreye]

They said the LED should be ON or OFF. He said that light only covers if it senses low ohm or too high input voltage. An internal malfunction in the amp can cause it but usually accompanied by distortion or no sound out of the channel. Since the sound is clean out of the speakers and the sub seemed to keep up with speakers on the other amp with the light on, he felt it really wasn't in protect mode and that it could be something else making that light appear lit (its much dimmer than the pic I posted).

So either its in low ohm protect mode knocking off 50% of the power or I lucked out and its fine. He told me to put a scope on it or take it to a JL Audio dealer to scope it if I wanted to be certain I am getting the power it should.


Here is the troubleshooting details of that light and if I say something that sounds wrong, its likely my ignorance/misunderstanding (and this is off memory):

First set resulting in a true Low ohm reading, 1-3 the troubleshooting is removing the speaker wire:
1) Speaker wires have a issue light kicks on. example he gave was positive and negative touching creating a almost 0 ohm resistance for the current back to the amp. Unplugging wires from amp should turn off light.

2) Speakers have a short to ground in them resulting in low impedance. Unplugging speaker wire should turn off light.

3) Trying to run speakers or combination of speakers that result in low impedance. He discounted this as soon as I told him there I had 1 wire per channel and he was familiar with the Kicker speakers. Also removing speaker wires should have turned off light.

4) internal short to ground in amp at terminals - I can't remember but I think he said the channel would not work then because power would find path of least resistance?


Second is input voltage on the RCAs and removing RCA's is the test.
1) If it exceeds a certain voltage it can kick on the light (I forget what it was, maybe 7V or 10V) remove RCA cables to check (I have not tried this)
2) He asked some questions if I was running a line driver or anything before the amp.
3) He said its really rare for the old slash series to have this problem. Its more common on the newer amps.

[Stingreye]

Also! Thanks for you help and advice again Mike!

Best thing I did when my boat was in transit on purchase was call MLA!

[Stingreye]

So is the Kicker Marine 800/5 a good replacement? Marine worth it vs the KX version, my boat is a trailer queen

That light is definitely "on" now even if its hot or cold. I was able to check the voltage at the speaker wire terminals and it seemed reasonable (I could get to what JL calls out as the non-clipping max voltage for the amp). I don't think that measures watts though.... its way above my head and pay grade! I think its almost 200 to repair these amps...so I am thinking I would be better off with a new class D.

Ohm'ing the speakers at the wires at the amp were 4.8 ohms on all inboats and the towers were over 5 ohms and the sub was over 5 too I think. I did not Ohm out just the wire. For the wire can I just connect pos to neg on one end then ohm it out or should I get a long wire I know is good to make a long probe to check them individually?

Also, got a new problem, while switch to tower to other amp as a bridge, I am now getting noise from the LED's through the tower speakers (not every color just versions that have the green LED on). I switch it back to the 500/5 amp and the noise is still there Man, I always make things worse before they get better....