Need help with Z1 stereo setup and speaker additions

[bryancm]

Hey Y'all,

Just sold my first Tige, 2001 21V Riders. She will be missed as she was a great boat. But, we just welcomed in a new, slightly used 2010 Z1. Yay!

So, the boat has a decent stereo, but needs a few new speakers. The current setup is 1 Syn 6, 6 x XS-650 in boat speakers and 1 12" Sub. All Wetsounds. Head unit is Clarion CMD6. Looks like the Syn 6 is running all the in boat 6.5" speakers and the sub. I am adding 2 Rev 8s to the tower and am curious about needing another amp. Could the CMD6 run the 6 6.5" speakers and the Syn 6 run the amp and 2 Rev 8s? I'm really not trying to have the loudest boat, but need something to hear the music while surfing.

Thanks for any advice you can offer!

[chpthril]

No, the head-unit will not effectively drive the 6 in-boats. The Syn-6 can be re-purposed to drive the new tower speakers and the sub. Them pickup a nice 4 chnl like the Syn-4 or HT-4 to drive the 6 in-boats. For a pair of Rev-8, the Syn-6 would deliver 200W to each when bridged chnls 1/2 and 3/4. Another option would be to leave the current setup as is, and pickup a 2 chnl like the Syn-2 or a 4 chnl like the HT-4.

For strictly a surf setup, have you considered the Icon-8? Pair it up with an HT-2.

[bryancm]

I have not considered the Icon 8. Honestly, I need these suggestions. Can you compare the two options for me please? I just considered the Revs because I hear people mention them often. I'm really just looking to get a bit more sound all around in the boat. I'm a bit underwhelmed by the bass from the sub too. Not sure if everything is adjusted properly though. We just picked up the boat Friday and I've only been out for a few hours. Can the Icon 8s be mounted to the Alpha Z tower?

Thanks!

[chpthril]

Sub: There should bass level control knob just under the lip of the helm, just below the steering wheel. I bet its turned down. Beyond that, we need to investigate the entire sub setup. A 12" sub did not come standard from Tige, so theres no telling whats there and how its setup. The Syn-6 can deliver 600W rms for a sub. Thats solid bass right there.

The Rev-8 is an 8" HLCD (Horn Loaded Compression Driver) with a primary focus on projecting music at wake-board range. The Icon-8 is an 8" Coaxial tower speaker with a primary focus on a warmer, more natural sound when listening close in like surfing or party-cove. With the advance in the Rev series cross-over, the old days of harsh near-field musing from an HLCD is gone. The Rev-8 is the best sounding 8" HLCD out there IMO, in terms of mid-bass and warmth. Both are in the same size pod, which is about the size of the old Pro-60 6.5" HLCD pod and both come in an "X" mount for the Alpha-Z tower. So ti will really come down to what your goals and listening preferences are. Neither is a bad choice for surfing, its just that the Icon will be a little warmer, yet the Rev-will project further.

[bryancm]

So helpful, as always! Think I might go withy the Icons and add the HT-4 to power them if you think it will get the job done.

Thanks again!

Ps. Where is the best marketplace to order those speakers and amp? Directly from WS?

[Duncan]

Good luck with your upgrades bryancm! This thread has useful info for how to use a Syn-6 amp in various configurations.

If you want to save some cash on speakers (and put it towards amps), I am selling a Wetsounds Double Up (Pro60s paired with MB8s both black with X clamps for Alpha Z tower). I have not yet listed them -- pm me if interested. This is a great setup for wakeboard distance and surf distance with a lot of mid-bass provided by the MB8s.

Not trying to steer you away from Revs (I am actually replacing the Double Up with Rev10s). But you could probably sell the Double Ups next season for close to what you buy them for now. That way you can buy more power this year and potentially better speakers next.

Chpthrl (reply above) is an amazing source of information and has universal positive feedback on these boards as a vendor.

I also suggest you exchange e-mails with Tim at Wetsounds regarding potential configurations. He has was very helpful to me when I configured the original Double Up setup and has likewise helped me a lot with recent upgrades.

[bryancm]

Thanks Chpthrl and Duncan,

Chpthrl- I have been corrected. The sub is the stock XS-10FA. Perhaps that is the culprit? What is a good upgrade to that? It is obviously not sealed and I'd like to do this with as little work as possible, but open to suggestions. Sometimes it seems like it is distorting a bit, almost has a slight knocking sound at times. Not sure if it is a bit loose? The knob is turned up and the speaker sure does move so it's running well and fully powered. If I just add the Icons, will that give me a bit more bass?

[Duncan]

Look at that thread I linked you too. The main reason I started down the upgrade path this season was the poor performance of that XS-10FA sub. Then things just kept going and I now find myself also adding XS808s and Rev10s .

From experience (of adding Double Ups), increasing your mid-bass with Icons or Revs is not going to solve the low bass inadequacy of an open 10" sub. While I am adding an XS-12 sub and a pair of Rev10s (swapped for Double Up), if I had to choose only one of those, it would be the XS-12 in a heart beat. But from your post, you do not have tower speakers, so your decision might be different. Nonetheless, I do not think adding just a pair of 8" cones is going to solve your issues.

I would contact Tim at Wetsounds for a suggested upgrade path. And Chpthrl deals Kicker products and could surely chime in with suggested upgrades.

Thanks Chpthrl and Duncan,

Chpthrl- I have been corrected. The sub is the stock XS-10FA. Perhaps that is the culprit? What is a good upgrade to that? It is obviously not sealed and I'd like to do this with as little work as possible, but open to suggestions. If I just add the Icons, will that give me a bit more bass?

[bryancm]

Cool, thanks! I would say both are necessary: Need the tower speakers for the surfing and need the sub for more bass. Can you just cut the hole bigger and add the XS-12 unsealed?

Should I consider a different brand 10"? Obviously that would be easy to just swap them out, but I would want to notice a performance increase.

[chpthril]

I agree with Duncan is saying. The tower zone and in-boat zone, including the sun in the in-boat zone, need to be addressed interdependently of each other. The 10" rev-10 is a pair of 10" HLCD's They are mi-bass drivers with a horn and are not 10" subwoofers. So in no way shape or form, will they fix a lack of bass issue in the boat. Also, a subwoofer under the helm is going to have limited contribution to a surfer 7 ft behind the boat with the engine running. Now, im not saying that a sub would not be heard if all the other full-range speakers where turned off.

So, you have 2 areas that you want to address. 1) lacking bass and 2) no tower speakers. I think we've covered the tower options pretty good. Rev-8's could be powered on the Syn-6, a Syn-2 or an HT-4. The Icon-8's could be powered on the Syn-6, a Syn-2 or an HT-2

Sub: Yep, the XS-10FA was the OEM sub, so if it was installed at the factory, it should be tuned properly unless it has been fiddled with. There should still be a volume knob for it just under the steering wheel.

The Syn-6 can produce 600W rms for a sub, when bridged across chnls 5 and 6. THis is solid power for any number of 10" or 12" subs, with the Wet sounds XS-12 being one of the 12's. No, cutting a larger hole and dropping in a 12" without an enclosure is not going to be a viable options. IMO, if you want to improve the bass output, you will need to go with a sub thats best suited for an enclosure and build one. You cna do a simple sealed enclosure or a more complex ported.

Now, as another option. I believe your OEM XS-10fa would have been a 4 ohm DVC. If you could round up a 2nd one, you could add a 2nd 10fa and have 300W to each. This will double the output. Down side is, the DVC 10fa's have been replaced with a single 4 ohm coil model, so theres not many left, if any. I would do a 10 or 12 in an enclosure IMO.

[bryancm]

Good golly! You guys sure know your stuff!

I think I will just do this in two parts. First, buy some Icons or Duncans speakers and an HT2. Then, build an enclosure around the existing sub, buy a new one more suited for an enclosure and call it good.

Now, off to the ballast page for more advice!

Thanks a ton!

[Duncan]

I think I will just do this in two parts. First, buy some Icons or Duncans speakers and an HT2. Then, build an enclosure around the existing sub, buy a new one more suited for an enclosure and call it good.

I think you need more power to all three of tower, in-boats, and sub. (two new amps in addition to your existing Syn6?).

I found the six in-boats to be underpowered when running two speakers from 1/2 (60 watts rms) and four speakers from 3/4 (50 watts rms) of the Syn6 (factory Tower of Power setup). I also found the 10" sub to be underpowered off 5/6 of the Syn6 (155 watts rms). These issues were actually the main focus of my upgrades. A new XS-12 sub wants at least 500 watts rms -- the 155 off 5/6 of the Syn6 is going to be disappointing I think.

On the HT2, the Icons (165 watts rms) or Double Up (150 watts rms for each of two pair) should be okay. You might bump to the Syn2 for some more power (Icons, 200 watts rms ; Double Up, 175 watts rms) or Syn4 if you go with just one pair of Icons (200 watts rms).

The Syn6 would do a good job powering a Double Up with Pro60s bridged on channels 1/2 and 3/4 for 200W rms and MB8s on channels 5/6 run on hi-pass for 155W rms.

But with any of the above suggestions, you still need sub power (Syn2 for 700 watts rms?).

SUGGESTION: Add tower speakers (Icon or Double Up) and a new amp (HT2 or Syn2) and leave the 10" open sub alone for this season (this is essentially the Tower of Power configuration). This sounds good and reduces your cost this seasons. Then next season, buy an amp and a 12" sub.

or just buy it all now

[bryancm]

or just buy it all now

Werd! Trying to calculate costs right now for stereo, transom LEDs and ballast upgrade!! I think you may be right, Duncan. Fix up tower and ballast STAT and see how much cash is left to work with AMP/Sub.

I do agree that the in-boats seem a bit under powered, which surprised me. Like you said, WSs loves power!

[chpthril]

The Syn-6 will deliver 305W rms on chnls 5 or 6 @ 2 ohm, such as with an XS-10fa D4, which I think was still used through the 2011 model year. Bridging chnls 5 and 6 with a 4 ohm speaker, such an XS-12 sub or a Rev-410 tower speaker, will net 600W rms. Bridging a pair of tower speakers, like the Icon-8 or Rev-8, on chnls 1/2 and 3/4, will net 200W rms to each. The SYN-6 is a very flexible amp. Its worth trying to re-purpose it.

If you go with Duncans Double-up, plan on using the Syn-6 for it. Im not a fan of driving these 2 pairs on a single 2 chnl amp. Then go with an HT-6 for the in-boats and HT-2 or HT-1 for a 12" sub.

[Duncan]

The Syn-6 will deliver 305W rms on chnls 5 or 6 @ 2 ohm, such as with an XS-10fa D4, which I think was still used through the 2011 model year. Bridging chnls 5 and 6 with a 4 ohm speaker, such an XS-12 sub or a Rev-410 tower speaker, will net 600W rms. Bridging a pair of tower speakers, like the Icon-8 or Rev-8, on chnls 1/2 and 3/4, will net 200W rms to each. The SYN-6 is a very flexible amp. Its worth trying to re-purpose it.

This is why stereo should be left to the pros (like chpthril). My bad on power from the Syn6 channel 5/6 bridge to the sub. Thanks for catching my error Chpthril.