Planning new system - Need advice!

[shawndoggy]

I ran a kicker zx700.5 that way (bridged to towers, 2 ohm on sub channel) and it was unspectacular on the tower side and got VERY VERY hot when run hard.

The full range side of the 700.5 is kinda weak. Pushes a modest sub nicely, but not the full range side. It would be a much better setup if they put the sub channel on top of a zx450.2.

I've been really impressed with the JL XD line. Between my car and my boat I'm running three of them and they've all performed really well. I'd think an XD 700/5 would be a good choice (the cheaper blacksheep brethren to the M700.5 mike recommended).

[Bruizza]

I have this amp in my boat pushing an RE Audio SX 12 at 1 ohm and 1400w. I also have an XS 12 with a syn 2 pushing it in my boat and the RE set up sounds a lot better. It's also a lot cheaper. Now if you wanted to score that XS 12 for $100 and snag this amp for $330 you could push 1000w to that sub at 2 ohms. It's on the high side wattage wise for that sub but if you adjust the gains right I bet it sounds really good.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...XTX3000.1.html

[chpthril]

I ran a kicker zx700.5 that way (bridged to towers, 2 ohm on sub channel) and it was unspectacular on the tower side and got VERY VERY hot when run hard.

Although the ZXM700.5 is a solid performing amp, its a tall order to ask any class-A/B 5 chnl Hybrid to run with all chnls at 2 ohm when closed up in an insulated compartment when its 110 in the shade. This is one amp that is better suited to run a sub and in-boats rather then in 3 chnl mode with a pair of towers bridged. Also, its only 165x2 when bridged (all 4 chnl running 2 ohm). Running the current 2 chnl at 150 x 2 @ 4 ohm would be a far better option. No audible difference in that 15W, but more headroom with the amp at 4 ohm V's bridged and running and at full throttle.

I have this amp in my boat pushing an RE Audio SX 12 at 1 ohm and 1400w. I also have an XS 12 with a syn 2 pushing it in my boat and the RE set up sounds a lot better

This is real a hard comparison to make. Like mid-range and tower speakers, subs are so subjective. So with out even taking into account the enclosure construction and thier locations, the RE is 2X the power of the XS-12 and leans more toward the SQ where as the XS-12 is a little more SPL.

[Bruizza]

Oh I know it isn't an apples to apples comparison. Just trying to give him some ideas. The only reason I added the XS 12 was we had an extra one and syn 2 sitting in the garage and I wanted to make sure I won the WWS stereo competition lol. It is in the boat purely for the wow and shake factor.

[kko]

The failure rate of the kicker amps that came factory in the Tiges as turned me away from ever putting one in my boat or recommending them to anyone. It was pretty much a given if you ran in @2ohm and ran it anywhere near "hard" it was toast. I do like the Arc Audio stuff. Not real sure of its longevity in boats but it always made nice clean power and sounded great. Never seen the Re audio stuff.
The ARC KS series is the ones I have used. I liked them alot. Chp have you good luck when them lasting in the boats?

[chpthril]

The failure rate of the kicker amps that came factory in the Tiges as turned me away from ever putting one in my boat or recommending them to anyone. It was pretty much a given if you ran in @2ohm and ran it anywhere near "hard" it was toast. I do like the Arc Audio stuff. Not real sure of its longevity in boats but it always made nice clean power and sounded great. Never seen the Re audio stuff.
The ARC KS series is the ones I have used. I liked them alot. Chp have you good luck when them lasting in the boats?

Tige saw the need to use more expensive marine battery cable in the 8ga size, rather then the less expensive 4ga amp cable for thier OEM installs. Too small of a cable ga is not good for any amp....especially a power hungry Class-A/B 5 cnhl Hybrib. IMP, this had more to do with amp failure, then the build quality.

The ACR KS line has been a strong performer for a number of years now. I picked up ARC mainly for thier new and expanding XDi Class-D line. I havent had them long enough to say that there life span is any different in a boat then it it in a car, but there is an ACR dealer in the Atlanta area that installs a lot of them in boats and is happy. Ive got one 5 chnl in the field and running the 4 chnl in the shop. Ive got the 1000W mono to wire soon and test. it will be driving our WS XXX-12.

[shawndoggy]

The ACR KS line has been a strong performer for a number of years now. I picked up ARC mainly for thier new and expanding XDi Class-D line. I havent had them long enough to say that there life span is any different in a boat then it it in a car, but there is an ACR dealer in the Atlanta area that installs a lot of them in boats and is happy. Ive got one 5 chnl in the field and running the 4 chnl in the shop. Ive got the 1000W mono to wire soon and test. it will be driving our WS XXX-12.

KS600.2 to a pair of rev10s is MONEY, especially compared to the (more expensive?) bridged syn4.

Arc is right where value meets quality in my experience. You can spend more but you don't get more. And you can't really spend less and get as much.

IMHO and all that.

[sandm]

reading this thread, I see a lot of similarities to my system I'm waiting to install.
I ran across a deal on 2 amps that someone I know needed to dump quickly so I took them off his hands..
my system will consist of:
6 wetsounds inboats run off a ks300.4
4 icon8's off the tower ran to a ks300.2-probably a little underpowered, but we'll see..
jl 12w6 ran off a ks1200.1
exile eq to control it all
got a nice pile in the spare room waiting for the season to end here and start the install. mike talked me into looking at the wetsounds and at the end of the day, they were quite a bit cheaper than the exile 6.5" tower speakers for me(wish he was an internet dealer) and I'm hoping that they are a good choice..

the arc audio is a new venture for me. was a lot of money for the class d and hoping it pays out at the end. seem to be a decent company. expensive as heck new, but I got the 2 for a steal from a friend-they are unopened. the 3rd was spensive...

wish it was all installed to offer an opinion on sound quality, but I'm sure it'll sound great. come on october 1st

[chpthril]

KS600.2 to a pair of rev10s is MONEY, especially compared to the (more expensive?) bridged syn4

Not sure how this plays into this thread, but as both a Wet Sounds and ARC Audio dealer/installer, I wont argue at all that the KS600.2 is a good match for one or two pair of Rev-10. But, if you go to both manufacturers websites, you will see that the KS600.2 ($639.00)actually retails for more then the Syn-4 ($599.99).

[kko]

KS600.2 to a pair of rev10s is MONEY, especially compared to the (more expensive?) bridged syn4.

Arc is right where value meets quality in my experience. You can spend more but you don't get more. And you can't really spend less and get as much.

IMHO and all that.

I agree with what you say. Although the site I am looking at the ARC cost more it does have more power...but they are close in cost.Not to sure of real world price of the Arc stuff. Maybe you are seeing a different price than me.
Do you guys put any stock in a Amp being marine grade?
Its a must for me. From what I have seen the non marine stuff just doesnt last. Thats why I asked about the Arc stuff in the boats lasting. I like there stuff just have not seen them in boats that I know to know how they last.

[shawndoggy]

I agree with what you say. Although the site I am looking at the ARC cost more it does have more power...but they are close in cost.Not to sure of real world price of the Arc stuff. Maybe you are seeing a different price than me.
Do you guys put any stock in a Amp being marine grade?
Its a must for me. From what I have seen the non marine stuff just doesnt last. Thats why I asked about the Arc stuff in the boats lasting. I like there stuff just have not seen them in boats that I know to know how they last.

my bad re pricing. Real world pricing of ks600.2 seems to be a lot more flexible prolly owing to prevalence of arc dealers vs wetsounds.

I don't think it's a big secret that arc is the oem for wetsounds syn series, or that arc designed the ks600.2 specifically to run two pair of hlcds like the rev10's.

If I lived where it was humid and or rained a lot marine grade might make a difference. In the desert with a trailered boat the biggest threat is probably a wave over the bow and marine grade or not you are going to fry if the amp is submerged.

My local lake looks like this, so as you can see moisture isn't such a big deal:

[mdk681]

[QUOTE=chpthril;635584]Although the ZXM700.5 is a solid performing amp, its a tall order to ask any class-A/B 5 chnl Hybrid to run with all chnls at 2 ohm when closed up in an insulated compartment when its 110 in the shade. This is one amp that is better suited to run a sub and in-boats rather then in 3 chnl mode with a pair of towers bridged. Also, its only 165x2 when bridged (all 4 chnl running 2 ohm). Running the current 2 chnl at 150 x 2 @ 4 ohm would be a far better option. No audible difference in that 15W, but more headroom with the amp at 4 ohm V's bridged and running and at full throttle.
QUOTE]

So at this point you think it would be my best bet to go with the ICON8's running off of my current amp? It seems like that should be sufficent power for those drivers.

As far as running a hybrid 5 channel, if I were to run the XS650's, you think an amp supporting 4 channels around 75 to 100watts @ 4 ohms would be best? From what I understand running at a higher impedance makes for less of a load on an amp? What about a JL 12w3v3; do you think DVC would be the way to go or just SVC 2 or 4ohm?

[kko]

[QUOTE=mdk681;635898]

Although the ZXM700.5 is a solid performing amp, its a tall order to ask any class-A/B 5 chnl Hybrid to run with all chnls at 2 ohm when closed up in an insulated compartment when its 110 in the shade. This is one amp that is better suited to run a sub and in-boats rather then in 3 chnl mode with a pair of towers bridged. Also, its only 165x2 when bridged (all 4 chnl running 2 ohm). Running the current 2 chnl at 150 x 2 @ 4 ohm would be a far better option. No audible difference in that 15W, but more headroom with the amp at 4 ohm V's bridged and running and at full throttle.
QUOTE]

So at this point you think it would be my best bet to go with the ICON8's running off of my current amp? It seems like that should be sufficent power for those drivers.

As far as running a hybrid 5 channel, if I were to run the XS650's, you think an amp supporting 4 channels around 75 to 100watts @ 4 ohms would be best? From what I understand running at a higher impedance makes for less of a load on an amp? What about a JL 12w3v3; do you think DVC would be the way to go or just SVC 2 or 4ohm?

IMPO...and I speak from my personal boat situation...I am running cheaper amps in my boat due to budget constaints at the time. I added a set of Rev8s well after the fact and have sooooo been wanting to buy a quality amp for them. It makes a huge difference.When I bought my amps I was running a small set of MB quartz tower speakers so the clarion was over kill for them. Run the 650s of your current amp and buy the best amp you can to go with your Icons. You will be glad you did. Maybe I am hung up on the tower. But IMPO its what you hear most and you want them to be the best they can be. When I compare my 650s on a clarion compared to customers boats with 650s on a WS amp its not a big difference. But when you hear a set of Rev8s cranked up on a WS syn2 compared to my Rev8s at full throttle its pretty evident my amp is lacking. I run same gauge wire to amp same gauge speaker wire all that..they just sound better (cleaner/crisper) with a good amp behind them. Do mine sound bad hell no. I love them (my neighbors hate them)they called the cops the day I installed them and was testing/tunning them. I am not the stereo guru by any means but I do some installs and add ons to boats we sell and I love to compare them to mine. Chp is better suited to answer your sub question. But yes you are correct the higher the imp. the easier on the amp. Running an amp @ 2ohm load that is only rated for 4ohm is certain death. Bottom line IMPO if you going to spend the money on the ICONS and you going to have to buy another amp for you system make it count and get a quality amp for them. You have me in the "upgrade mode you want to buy a "genlty used" clarion Apx480m I got 3 of them...so I can upgrade!! Seriously though good luck.

[Bruizza]

Kko if you upgrade amps for your Rev 8s get a syn 4 or something similar. If you think they sound good on a syn 2 wait until you hear them on a syn 4!

[chpthril]

So at this point you think it would be my best bet to go with the ICON8's running off of my current amp? It seems like that should be sufficent power for those drivers.

If you ARE going with a larger coax like the Icon, then yes, running them on your current chnl is a viable option, compared to bridging them on a 4 chnl that would only net a slight increase in watts rms. If you are looking to upgrade the tower sound and upgrade the in-boats and sub, all while trying to do it with a reasonable budget and reuse perfectly operating gear, then yes, the current 2 chnl is perfect for the Icons. So, with some context, yes, its a great option.

Now, if the budget is a little looser, then I would consider another tower amp for the Icons. One thats more efficiant and higher output. The current 2 chnl could still be utilized for a sub and then picking up a 4 chnl for the in-boats. Down side is, you're at 3 amps.

Now, if you went with the right Class-D or G/H hybrid, then I would have no problem running a sub on sub chnl(s) and then bridging the Icons on the 4 full-range chnls. Some of the amps I listed earlier will work with this config, some will not.

HT-6, IX1000.5 and XDi805 are three that come to mind.

The HT-6 would give you 300W to a 4 ohm SVC or 2 ohm DVC sub and both Icons.
the IX1000.5 would deliver 500W to a 4 ohm DVC sub and 250W to each Icon.
the XDi805 would deliver 400W to a 4 ohm DVC sub and 240W to each Icon.

So if the sub choice is set, this would be a route to go that reuses the current 2 chnl for the in-boats and only purchasing one more amp. This keeps you at 2 amps for space constraints and nothing is underpowered.

As far as running a hybrid 5 channel, if I were to run the XS650's, you think an amp supporting 4 channels around 75 to 100watts @ 4 ohms would be best? From what I understand running at a higher impedance makes for less of a load on an amp? What about a JL 12w3v3; do you think DVC would be the way to go or just SVC 2 or 4ohm

With a typical amp, when we drop the impedance on a chnl, its output goes up. This means the amp is working harder, drawing more current and producing more heat. Its not always a bad thing to run an amp thats 2 ohm stable at 2 ohm, but its always great if we can minimise the number of chnls we run at 2 ohm. Now, with the higher efficiency amps available to day, its not as big as concern. These amps draw less current to produce the same wattage and since more of that current is converted to wattage to the speakers, less unwanted heat is generated. So we do not see the same thermal issues with efficiant amps as we do with Class-A/B. The other area we get into trouble sometimes is when we are bridging an amp (both chnls now "see" 2 ohm) and we are just hitting the speaker's RMS ratting. This means we are really cranking on that volume knob to get the most out of that speaker.

The subs coil configuration and impedance will only effect your amp choice for it. So you need to decide on its amp before you purchase the sub.