Planning new system - Need advice!

[mdk681]

Currently I am running a pretty pieced together system in my new to me '99 21v Riders Edition. I would like to get a new setup planned out and installed this fall/winter. This is what I am currently running:

Head Unit - Alpine CDA-9856 (Don't plan on replacing)
Tower Speakers - 2 Wet Sounds XS650 pods from Monster Tower
Tower Amp - HiFonics ZX6000 150w RMS x 2 @ 4ohms
In-boat - 4 older JVC 2-way coaxial's run off the HU's power
Sub & Amp - Cheap freebies - works ok but I need more!

Although the tower speakers do pretty well for wakeboarding, the sound at surfing distance and close up is pretty harsh (especially to the people sitting in the back of the boat when wakeboarding). We do a lot of partying at a local sand bar/island as well so I would like the towers to sound good pretty close up when cranked but still project well to wakeboarding distances. Will I be able to cover this broad spectrum of distances with one pair of speakers, or will 2 pairs be needed?

I have read a lot about Wet Sounds, Exile, and Kicker but really do not know what I will need to cover my needs. Any thoughts?

As far as a sub I would like to do one 12 under the steering console. Currently I have my sub in a sealed box sitting inside of the port side storage locker. If the storage door is closed, it basically cuts off all sound from the sub to the rest of the boat. Do most people cut out a square under the steering area and actually put a box there? Or just cut a circle in the wall and run a free air type sub?

Any input on this project would be much appreciated - I am looking to do this right so I am open to suggestions and any reccomendations! Thanks!

[shawndoggy]

what's your budget?

[mdk681]

what's your budget?

I really don't have a set price as of now - I was guessing around 2k for tower speakers (if I can run 1 pair), sub, and sub amp? Possibly more depending if I can still use my current 2 channel amp or not. It is not much of a concern at this point as I need to see what it will cost to get what I want this system to do.

[chpthril]

Although the tower speakers do pretty well for wakeboarding, the sound at surfing distance and close up is pretty harsh (especially to the people sitting in the back of the boat when wakeboarding). We do a lot of partying at a local sand bar/island as well so I would like the towers to sound good pretty close up when cranked but still project well to wakeboarding distances. Will I be able to cover this broad spectrum of distances with one pair of speakers, or will 2 pairs be needed?

Im wondering about how your current tower XS-650 are tuned. These should sound good near field. It sounds like yours may be crossed over a bit too high. I would also pull one from the pod and see if it has any poly-fill in there. This pods are small, which robs the mid-bass. The un-dampened aluminum pods will also give off a "tinny" sound. Adding some poly-fill will help here also.

Now, to achieve a setup that is well balanced between near-field SQ and wake-board projection, you will need to something like the larger Wet Sounds Rev-8 or Icon-8, or the Kicker KM6500.2 6-pod setup. I would recommend a different amp for the Rev-8 and your current zx6000.2 would be the minimum for the Icon8 or or the Kicker 6-Pack.

As far as a sub I would like to do one 12 under the steering console. Currently I have my sub in a sealed box sitting inside of the port side storage locker. If the storage door is closed, it basically cuts off all sound from the sub to the rest of the boat. Do most people cut out a square under the steering area and actually put a box there? Or just cut a circle in the wall and run a free air type sub?

Storing a sub in an enclosed compartment is like cutting its power in half. So moving a sub to under the helm so it radiates directly out into the boat will be an improvement.

Having a sub in the correct enclosure will always trump an infinite-baffle sub. So if are up to building an enclosure, the payoff will be worth it.

Cutting a square hole and front-loading a completed enclosure through the hole will probably be the ideal method with that boat. I think you will find that the access to the rear of the helm wall is going to be too small to back-load a completed enclosure.

I would suggest choosing the subwoofer based on what size enclosure the available compartment will allow. Determine the max gross volume of your enclosure, then choose a woofer that best fits the net volume. Once thats done, then choose the amp.

I would consider putting the in-boats on a decent 4 chnl amp.

[mdk681]

Im wondering about how your current tower XS-650 are tuned. These should sound good near field. It sounds like yours may be crossed over a bit too high. I would also pull one from the pod and see if it has any poly-fill in there. This pods are small, which robs the mid-bass. The un-dampened aluminum pods will also give off a "tinny" sound. Adding some poly-fill will help here also.

Now, to achieve a setup that is well balanced between near-field SQ and wake-board projection, you will need to something like the larger Wet Sounds Rev-8 or Icon-8, or the Kicker KM6500.2 6-pod setup. I would recommend a different amp for the Rev-8 and your current zx6000.2 would be the minimum for the Icon8 or or the Kicker 6-Pack.

Storing a sub in an enclosed compartment is like cutting its power in half. So moving a sub to under the helm so it radiates directly out into the boat will be an improvement.

Having a sub in the correct enclosure will always trump an infinite-baffle sub. So if are up to building an enclosure, the payoff will be worth it.

Cutting a square hole and front-loading a completed enclosure through the hole will probably be the ideal method with that boat. I think you will find that the access to the rear of the helm wall is going to be too small to back-load a completed enclosure.

I would suggest choosing the subwoofer based on what size enclosure the available compartment will allow. Determine the max gross volume of your enclosure, then choose a woofer that best fits the net volume. Once thats done, then choose the amp.

I have removed both speakers from the pods before, and there was nothing at all inside. I fly home Thursday morning, so I will run to the store and grab some Polyfill and try it out. How much would you reccomend to put in each pod? Enough to fill the pod and lightly touch the back of the speaker? That might be what I need to make these a bit more mellow close up - my biggest gripe was exactly how you put it, way too "tinny" sounding.

The amp is on the "HI" setting on the x-over, which I would assume is the high pass filter. Is this the correct setting to run for this type of application? I can't remember where the hi pass dial is set to, but I would assume it is around half. Lowest setting being 30hz and highest 1.2khz. Should that be toward the lower or higher end?

Years ago I used to be big into car audio, which I'm sure has changed quite a bit since I walked away. I was thinking about sticking with the same brand I used to run in my truck, JL Audio. Do you reccomend spending the money on marine subwoofers, or will standard models suffice?

[mdk681]

I would consider putting the in-boats on a decent 4 chnl amp.

I have thought about this also, I think that if I were to add an amp for these, I would replace the speakers as well. Currently I don't really know where I would put a 3rd amp - is there such thing as multi-RCA input amps anymore? Something that could run a decent sized sub off of 1 channel, plus speakers off an additional 4 channels? I can recall that type of amp being extremely expensive years ago...

[chpthril]

I have removed both speakers from the pods before, and there was nothing at all inside. I fly home Thursday morning, so I will run to the store and grab some Polyfill and try it out. How much would you reccomend to put in each pod? Enough to fill the pod and lightly touch the back of the speaker? That might be what I need to make these a bit more mellow close up - my biggest gripe was exactly how you put it, way too "tinny" sounding.

Loosely filled, not compressed.

The amp is on the "HI" setting on the x-over, which I would assume is the high pass filter. Is this the correct setting to run for this type of application? I can't remember where the hi pass dial is set to, but I would assume it is around half. Lowest setting being 30hz and highest 1.2khz. Should that be toward the lower or higher end?

"HI-Pass" is exactly where you want the filter to be set to. I would suggest that the frequency be set somewhere between 100-150 Hz. With a spread on the dial like that amp, you may need to use some test tones to set it.

Years ago I used to be big into car audio, which I'm sure has changed quite a bit since I walked away. I was thinking about sticking with the same brand I used to run in my truck, JL Audio. Do you reccomend spending the money on marine subwoofers, or will standard models suffice?

Im a stickler for using marine in-boats because the stand the biggest chnace of regular water encounters as well as tend to get a lot of direct sun light. For subs, I have no issue with using a car audio sub in a fresh water trailer boat.

I have thought about this also, I think that if I were to add an amp for these, I would replace the speakers as well. Currently I don't really know where I would put a 3rd amp - is there such thing as multi-RCA input amps anymore? Something that could run a decent sized sub off of 1 channel, plus speakers off an additional 4 channels? I can recall that type of amp being extremely expensive years ago...

Although hybrid 5 and 6 chnl amps can be pricey, then tend to be less expensive then a 4 chnl and mono of comparable power. Smaller footprint as well. There are a handful of hybrid amps that offer anywhere from 300-600 watts rms. Kicker has a few, Wet Sounds has a few, Alpine, JL and Arc also offer a model. I would decide on the sub, then see if there is a hybrid that fits the power requirement. Also, if you go with some efficiant Class-D amps, they tend to be smaller then a comparable class-A/B amp. This may help if space is an issue.

[kko]

I like the wetsounds stuff. I run 1 pair Rev 8s powered by a clarion marine amp and they sound great. 1 pair or even a pair of Rev 10s if budget is not an issue. I have 3 pair of the XS-650 powered by a clarion marine amp and love them. I run the WS FA-10 sub powered by a Clarion marine amp it works well but fails compared to the XS12" WS sub I have insatlled in some customers boats.
Take the XS650s you have but them in the boat and buy another set for in the boat.Power them with the amp you have.
But a XS12 in for a sub and buy an amp for it. (what ever the budget allows)WS HT2 maybe
If I had the budget I would do a REV 3 some. But it really comes down to the budget. 1 pair of Rev8s work..but more is always better..You can always add on if you get a good amp. If a pair of rev8s or 10s isnt enough add a REV 410. If thats not enough you got problems!!LOL Get and amp for tower..(what ever the budget allows).
When I get around to upgrading my amps I think I am going to use the WS HT series amps. I just installed one for the first time the other day in a customers boat and it sounded great and its a little easier on the budget.
I am sure you will get lots of good advice on this post. Hope you find something that works for you. I am sure you will.

[mdk681]

I like the wetsounds stuff. I run 1 pair Rev 8s powered by a clarion marine amp and they sound great. 1 pair or even a pair of Rev 10s if budget is not an issue. I have 3 pair of the XS-650 powered by a clarion marine amp and love them. I run the WS FA-10 sub powered by a Clarion marine amp it works well but fails compared to the XS12" WS sub I have insatlled in some customers boats.
Take the XS650s you have but them in the boat and buy another set for in the boat.Power them with the amp you have.
But a XS12 in for a sub and buy an amp for it. (what ever the budget allows)WS HT2 maybe
If I had the budget I would do a REV 3 some. But it really comes down to the budget. 1 pair of Rev8s work..but more is always better..You can always add on if you get a good amp. If a pair of rev8s or 10s isnt enough add a REV 410. If thats not enough you got problems!!LOL Get and amp for tower..(what ever the budget allows).
When I get around to upgrading my amps I think I am going to use the WS HT series amps. I just installed one for the first time the other day in a customers boat and it sounded great and its a little easier on the budget.
I am sure you will get lots of good advice on this post. Hope you find something that works for you. I am sure you will.

Is it possible to run 4 XS650's off of the amp I currently have? I don't think I would be able to do that with the amp only being 2 channels, unless there is some crazy wiring configuration I could use...

[kko]

See why I was typing all that stuff ^^^^^^^^^ you got one of the best stereo mids on here to chime in. I would call him the best but it might upset others plus he already has a big enough head and we dont want it to get any bigger!
IMPO you are never going to get the tower to be where you want it with XS650s...just my opinion...I ran reg. speakers up there for a while and as soon as I bought a true tower speaker i was kidding myself with those other ones. What ever you do get a true tower speaker!! Best money you will spend IMPO. Ok back to CHP giving you the real low down!

[chpthril]

Is it possible to run 4 XS650's off of the amp I currently have? I don't think I would be able to do that with the amp only being 2 channels, unless there is some crazy wiring configuration I could use...

Yes. Based on its advertised output, it would deliver 150W rms to each speaker with a pair wired in parallel (+ to +/- to -) to each chnl.

[mdk681]

See why I was typing all that stuff ^^^^^^^^^ you got one of the best stereo mids on here to chime in. I would call him the best but it might upset others plus he already has a big enough head and we dont want it to get any bigger!
IMPO you are never going to get the tower to be where you want it with XS650s...just my opinion...I ran reg. speakers up there for a while and as soon as I bought a true tower speaker i was kidding myself with those other ones. What ever you do get a true tower speaker!! Best money you will spend IMPO. Ok back to CHP giving you the real low down!

I would indeed like to go with a new pair on the tower, good point here. That is also a good call to take the 2 from the tower, and buy 2 more for in-boat. Will definatly consider this.

Yes. Based on its advertised output, it would deliver 150W rms to each speaker with a pair wired in parallel (+ to +/- to -) to each chnl.

That might be nice to be able to keep that amp where it is, and just change some wiring. Thanks for the clarification.


I was looking at the ICON8's on the Wet Sounds site and they seem to fit into my budget at the moment. They state that they are best close up and at wake surfing distances, which is my main concern at the end of the day. Would these ICON8's still be decent (equivilent to what I currently run...?) when wakeboarding?

[chpthril]

See why I was typing all that stuff ^^^^^^^^^ you got one of the best stereo mids on here to chime in. I would call him the best but it might upset others plus he already has a big enough head and we dont want it to get any bigger!
D

I bet you didnt know I did fast food commercials in my spare time, I bet you've me on TV, but didnt recognize me in character

[kko]

Is it possible to run 4 XS650's off of the amp I currently have? I don't think I would be able to do that with the amp only being 2 channels, unless there is some crazy wiring configuration I could use...

Yes you can wire them is series..Its not the best config. for max power but it would work. Of course a 4ch amp is the best answer but I was trying to use what you have so you could save your money for a true tower set up.
Do you have speakers in the bow or are all 4 in the rear of the boat.

[Bruizza]

Buy this guys XS 12 sub it is a steal for the price he is offering.

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...173#post635173