Kicker Amp problem

[rdg]

I have a 08 Zi with a dealer supplied and installed Kicker amp. The volume cuts out above level 18 or so on most days we use it. My dealer says they had problems in warm weather. has anyone run into similar problems? My dealer says there is only a one year warrenty. I find this rather lame given I spent 50k with him on the boat and have only used it two summers.

[chpthril]

Yep, im 99% sure it's not the amp, but rather how the tower setup is wired and or tuned by the dealer/installer.

More info is needed: how many tower speakers, what brand/model speakers, and what Kicker amp model. Once we have this info, we can give you a few things to look at. If unsure, pics will help.

Oh, if it was factory installed, it has a 3 year warranty.

[philwsailz]

Therre are several common dealer install issues:
1. Undersized or Improper Power Wiring
If the power wire gage is too small, or if the wiring is done other than straight back to the battery, the voltage will be low, and that in turn will cause current to be high. High current through an amp will over-heat it.

2. Bridging
Lots of folks do not understand how to properly bridge an amplifier, or when it is even appropriate. A bridged amp wired the wrong way usually leads to each channel having way too low an impedance to run reliably. Low impedance on an amp channel causes what looks almost like a short circuit, and the amp has a protection circuit that puts it into protection mode in a short ciircuit situation.

3. Low impedance loading
Most car audio amps are 2-ohm stable these days and will run reliably, alnbeit warm into a 2-ohm load. For speakers you get a 2-ohm load by wiring two 4-ohm speakers in parallel, i.e. with both speaekrs + and - wires tied together at the amp. The problem is, most coax speakers these days are not 4-ohms, despite the factual statement that they are nominally 4-ohms. Just like a 125 cc motorcycle might actually have a displacement of only 119 cc's, most 4-ohm speakers actually have a 3.4 to 3.6 ohm impedance. When you tie two together, you get an impedance that is too low, (1.7 - 1.8 ohms) for an amplifier to drive reliably. This causes the amp's over-current protection to kick in.

4. Improper control settings
The gain controls, bass boost, and crossover knobs are all there for their own specific reason, yet very few people grasp how they work and why. For most applications, you want the full range amplifier channels to have their high-pass crossover engaged. You want the crossover frequency, (Hz) to be at AT LEAST 50, usually more like 70 or 80, and even as high as 120. For full range amp channels with the crossover engaged, the bass boost should be turned totally off. Gains shoud be typically no higher than 12:00 o-clock as on a clock dial for most marine radios, and usually more like at 9:00 o-clock for lots of marine radios. If these settings are not set up this way on your amp, it might cause the problem or it could make a problem elsewhere even worse.

Holler back at us, and let us know what the application is, (tower or in-boat) which amp, which speakers, how many speakers, etc. Also, see if you can figure out what gage the power wire is, and how it is run. If you cannot read the gage on the wire, describe how big it is in relative terms, like if you cut it, the cut end would be as big around as a dime, or it is as big around as a pencil or some other way. Or take pictures! A lot can be determined from pictures.

Mike is right. this is almost certainly not the fault of the amp, it is probably a install that is not correct for the given setup. Get us the details and we will get you running.

Phil
Kicker

[ajholt7]

Sorry for the highjack but, Phil, what is the reason for turning the bass boost all the way off? I assume this is in High pass only, not in low pass to the sub right?

[philwsailz]

Sorry for the highjack but, Phil, what is the reason for turning the bass boost all the way off? I assume this is in High pass only, not in low pass to the sub right?

Right. In my post above, I share that for full-range amp channels where you are using high-pass you want the bass boost off. Here is the logic: When you are using a crossover in high-pass mode, you are asking the amp to only play music and information above the crossover point. In effect, for the specific frequencies mentioned, (50 - 120 Hz) you are removing bass from the full-range channels, so why turn up bass boost for an amp channel you are trying to remove bass from? It is basically oxymoronic... lots like trying to empty a vessel of water, but pouring water in at the same time.

Understand, Bass Boost is a feature that is basically demanded by the market. It is not a necessity, and it can cause lots of problems when abused. Used in moderation on subs and sub amps whewre youy are using the crossover in low-pass, it can help systems that are weaker or lacking in lower frequencies sound like they are making more bass, but that comes at a price: Bass Boost controls turn up a very narrow band of frequencies, (Kicker's is centered at 45 Hz) and turning it way up delivers a lot of power only at these frequencies, with very little going elsewhere. It makes it real easy to run the amp into clipping distortion.

If you find that you are turning your bass boost way up, it is pointing to system deficiencies for your desires and needs. You might be turning the bass boost up to try to compensate for the lack of an enclosure. In this case, adding an enclosure is a much better solution. Sometimes "free-air" installs are done where the back waves off the woofer are not totally isolated. In this instance, find the "holes" and seal them, and you will get the bass you are looking for without turning up the bass boost. Lots of times, a bass boost control turned way up just means you need more woofers, more power, or a combination of both. Bass comes from displacement, cone area, and amp power, and for all three more is better. You get this by spending money and upgrading, not by turning some little knob.

In sumary, for crossed-over full range amp channels leave the bass boost off. For subs and sub amps, a little is okay, but if you are using it more than half-way up, figure out what is wrong with your system. In the long run, you will be happier if you can build a killer system that needs NO bass boost.

Phil
Kicker

[rdg]

Thanks Phil,
This makes sense, I've forwared your reply to Tige and my dealer. I will try and get more info, ie no tower speakers yet, factory 08 kicker amp ZX550.3 or ZX700.5 and speakers, clarion head unit and I have not touched anything. Your help is great. I'll wait to hear from Tige and my dealer.
Bob

[chpthril]

Thanks Phil,
This makes sense, I've forwared your reply to Tige and my dealer. I will try and get more info, ie no tower speakers yet, factory 08 kicker amp ZX550.3 or ZX700.5 and speakers, clarion head unit and I have not touched anything. Your help is great. I'll wait to hear from Tige and my dealer.
Bob

Sorry, I assumed it was the tower setup, as this seems to be the common area for this exact complaint. How many cabin speakers and what sub? Both of these are very important in order to determine if the system is possibly configured incorrectly. Also knowing whether it's the 700.5 or the 550.3! Tige used the 700.5, but if it's truly dealer installed, it could be either.

[rdg]

The sub is a Wet Sounds XS10FR, all 6 wet sounds speakers front, mid amd rear, the amp is the XZ700.5. I also have not adjusted any settings on the amp.
Bob

[chpthril]

The sub is a Wet Sounds XS10FR, all 6 wet sounds speakers front, mid amd rear, the amp is the XZ700.5. I also have not adjusted any settings on the amp.
Bob

Sweet, that's pretty much the factory setup. So that leaves us with either improper wiring (doubt it though ) or incorrect settings. My money is on the later.

If you want to tackle this yourself, I have a couple of Jpegs that show exactly where to set the amp settings. I'll dig them up and post if you want.

[rdg]

Very nice if you could, also the fat sacs I bought from you last year are great. Thanks for the posts.
Bob

[chpthril]

Very nice if you could, also the fat sacs I bought from you last year are great. Thanks for the posts.
Bob

Thanks, glad they are working out for ya!

Ok, first pic shows the end of the amp, this is actually the zx350.4, but what we are looking at the same on the zx700.5, dont panic if the pic doesnt look exactly like your amp.

There will be two switches on the end of the zx700.5 labeled Amp1 and Amp2 "Hi" and "Low", these need to be in the "Hi" position.

The next pic is the front of the amp. Again, it's the zx350.4, so the only difference is the 3 additional dials for the sub chnl that the zx700.5 has.

You will see the dials are divided in to groups of three - Amp1, Amp2, Sub, and there is a Bass-Boost, Gain, and X-over Frequency (Hz) for each section of the amp.

Make sure the head-unit's EQ is set to flat/OFF/0, in other words, no bass or treble on the head-unit. and that the fade is centered.

Bass-Boost - set all 3 dials to 0

Gains - Set all 3 at about 11 o'clock about the 3rd arrow (12 being straight up)

Sub chnl X-over -set to between 50Hz and 80Hz, which should between the 2nd and 3rd arrow

Amp 1 and Amp 2 x-overs need to be set at about 100hz which is the 3rd arrow.

The system should run fine up to 28 on the head-unit now.

[rdg]

Awesome mike, I'll check these settings and report if any are different than your recommendations.
Thanks again,
Bob

[rdg]

Hey Mike,
Checked all the amp settings and found a couple to be slightly different. I set to you specs and will monitor.
Thanks
Bob

[rdg]

Hey mike the amp settings worked great, thanks.
Now I'd like to get a tower setup with amp and speakers 2 or 4.
What would you sell that would give good sound for the wakeboarder back 70 feet. Please provide a couple or three options based on price.
thanks
bob

[chpthril]

Hey mike the amp settings worked great, thanks.
Now I'd like to get a tower setup with amp and speakers 2 or 4.
What would you sell that would give good sound for the wakeboarder back 70 feet. Please provide a couple or three options based on price.
thanks
bob

Bob,

Glad to hear everything is working good now.

i'll put some thoughts together for you on some tower speaker options.