wattage "overhead" ???

[Jason B]

I've heard it said by the gurus here (Tim and Phil ) that they like to use extra wattage for "overhead" (I think the term they used.)
My question is what does that really mean beyond the obvious of extra wattage? Why do that? How much is too much? How do I keep the extra from harming my speaker? How do you know when you're using enough of the available without overdoing it? At what point will it harm the speaker?

Did I say, "My question is," I meant, "my questionS are." lol

Reason I ask is that I fried my Hifoniks 1600, literally...smoke and fire and all. Awsome! lol...well, guess it's not really "funny" cause I had to replace it...anyhow....

I got an incredible deal on a Hifoniks 2100, so reluctantly I took it. (Sorry Tim and Phil, you're amps are >$$$$$ right now for me) I don't really WANT to put 2100 amps to my XXX 12" since that's better than double the max wattage. However, I also don't feel like unsealing my speaker at this time to change the wiring back to 2 ohms (instead of the current 1 Ohm). Yes, I'm being lazy, sorry.

Lastly, is there a device that will allow me to check, accurately, the wattage going to the speakers? I'd love to know for sure what the aps are TRULY putting out!!!

[chpthril]

The sub will be either a 1 ohm load or a 4 Ohm load, it cant be 2 ohm. Was the old amp stable at 1 Ohm? Not many are, could be why it smoked. The load (the impedance of the speaker(s)) wired to the amp will determine it's output based on the manufactures specs.

What st the 4 ohm watts RMS spec of your new amp, and is it stable @ 1 Ohm? If so, what is the 1 Ohm watts RMS spec?

[Jason B]

Hifonics Brutus brz2100
1X 700 watts at 4 ohms, 1700@2ohms, 2100 @ 1ohm RMS
Yes, it claims to be stable at 1 ohm....so did the last one that ignited though, so thought I'd take it easier on this one. I also read that higher ohms produces more clean sound.

WS site lists XXX as Dual 2ohms impedance. The instructions show wiring it in parrallel makes it 1 ohm. Just using one of the wire connectors of the XXX should just leave it at 2 ohms, no? Or do I NEED to use both wire mounts?

[chpthril]

Hifonics Brutus brz2100
1X 700 watts at 4 ohms, 1700@2ohms, 2100 @ 1ohm RMS
Yes, it claims to be stable at 1 ohm....so did the last one that ignited though, so thought I'd take it easier on this one. I also read that higher ohms produces more clean sound.

WS site lists XXX as Dual 2ohms impedance. The instructions show wiring it in parrallel makes it 1 ohm. Just using one of the wire connectors of the XXX should just leave it at 2 ohms, no? Or do I NEED to use both wire mounts?

yes, the XXX is a DUAL 2 ohm voice coil sub. In other words, it has two voice coils, each with an internal resistance of 2ohms.

When two components of equal impedance are wired in parallel, their respective resistance is halved, and when they are wired in series, their resistance is doubled. So, a 2 Ohm DVC sub can either be wired to a 1 Ohm or 4 Ohm load.

Just using one of the wire connectors of the XXX should just leave it at 2 ohms, no

If I'm understanding what you're asking, this would only be using one voice coil, so no, you cant do that.

I would recommend wiring it in series and running it @ 4 Ohm, or getting a different amp. One that will do 1500 or so at either 1 ohm or 4 Ohm.

[Tanner]

BTW Jason the term your looking for is headroom. Hehe.

As for overpowering a speaker, as long as you watch your gains your good. When you smell the coil burning its time to turn your gains down. For instance I have 750W going to EACH 485 I have.... twice the recommended RMS. Also have 1000w rms AMP going to a 15" L5 thats rated at 750W RMS.

[Tanner]

I should add the qualifier that overpowering is ok to a point. I once put 1500W to a 6.5" speaker and played a test tone. HEHE... the 3 seconds it lasted before an 8" flame shot out the cone was awesome! HEHE

As for the XXX...IDK Cheap, I bet that sub will take more abuse than your giving it credit for. If he had the amp with the gain turned up only a quarter of the way or just below half for that matter, I think he'd be ok, as long as he watched his volume level. Personally I don't like running ANY amp at 1 Ohm though.... no matter what they say!

[chpthril]

As for the XXX...IDK Cheap, I bet that sub will take more abuse than your giving it credit for. !

I'm well aware of what the XXX will take, i'm just not going to put my neck out there and tell him to push it with 2100 watt rms............I'll let the folks at Wet Sounds and HiFonics tell him it's ok. In the mean time, if you know of a way to get that amp to do more then 700 but less then 2100 and not be wired @ 1 Ohm, i'm all ears. At the end of the day, I think he will end up with another smoking hifonics if he pushes it @ 1 Ohm, and that was the major motivation behind my recommendation to wire the sub at 4 ohm or find another amp.

[Tanner]

At the end of the day, I think he will end up with another smoking hifonics if he pushes it @ 1 Ohm, and that was the major motivation behind my recommendation to wire the sub at 4 ohm or find another amp.

I agreed with you at the end of my post. That's why I Said I don't really like running ANY amp at 1 Ohm. In all honesty I'm not real familiar with what the XXX will handle and what it won't.

On a side note ... ... did you ever get my PM?

[chpthril]

I agreed with you at the end of my post. That's why I Said I don't really like running ANY amp at 1 Ohm. In all honesty I'm not real familiar with what the XXX will handle and what it won't.

On a side note ... ... did you ever get my PM?

I may have, so my apologies for not responding. My PM box fill up about every three to for days and has to be dumped.

Shoot me an email mikesliquidaudio (at) bellsouth (dot) net.

[Jason B]

Thanks guys, you're no help. lol
J/k!
I already bought/installed the amp--expecting to use it at 2 ohms. So, I'm kinda screwed there I guess. If I can't just use one of the voice coils, then I'm stuck running it at 2100 watts at 1 ohm. Guess I'll just turn the gain way down and try my best to keep the amp cool as possible.
700 watts is just not enough.....let's hope it doesn't take a $600 XXX blowing to show me that I made the wrong choice.

[Jason B]

..on a side note, with the gains turned to 1/2 and the volume cranked on a little R&B...holy balls!!! lol that thing could be used for chest compressions during CPR!!! Not sure I'd leave it that way though...

[Tanner]

Keeping the gains down will help keep the heat off your amp, which is what kills them. It will also help with your power consumption.

As to running a single VC on a DVC sub.... w/o getting to technical... yes...it's possible. But HIGHLY discouraged! Like I said, it is possible to do so, but you'll need to add a resistor to the unused coil set to dissipate the electromagnetic energy created in the passive coil. When you only drive one coil on a DVC speaker, you create a load by dragging the other coil of the disconnected speaker. This will create heat, and you will burn the coil up on the one that is hooked up as it's working twice as hard. In addition, you also run the chance that the sub will not even sound right. The unused coil travels through the magnetic field of the motor system creating an electrical current in the unused coil. This current needs to be bled off or it will cause the sub to sound "Differently"... which is where the resistor comes in.

In other words... DON'T DO IT! LOL

Let me add a clarifier here (I'll try and keep this as dumbed down as possible)... Despite my warning, it technically is possible. In fact, in sound Q comps we actually used this technique in order to adjust the "Qts" of subs by sizing the resisitor. This allows you to tune the sub to your needs. But this gets highly complicated, and if you don't know what your doing, you can easily toast your sub!

[Jason B]

Thanks Tanner, happened to speak to Justin at WS also and he echoed your comment. Im stuck at 1 or 4 ohms...oh well.
I'll turn the gains lower and try to add a sub somewhere else in the boat as time permits. My walkway fits the extra 12" WS sub I have sitting on my shelf, so I may brainstorm a bit to see what I can come up with in the walkway that we never use anyway. I have an extra 400 watts on an unused channel from the tower amp--at least until I can afford the SYN6 to replace it.

Thanks for all the help guys!!!