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    Kinetik Battery issue - electronic gurus speak up!

    I recently came across a smokin' deal on some KM-27 Kinetik batteries. I have been itching to replace the stock interstate wet cells for some time now, but have not done it until this deal popped up. The deal was so good that it was questionable whether it might be a littly fishy, but I decided to jump on it anyway since they have sold 5 figures worth of items on Ebay with a 99%+ approval rating.

    The Km-27 is the marine equivalent to the KHC 2000 according to both the people I purchased them from and the Kinetik website. Supposed to have 1100 Cranking amps worth of power and something like 200 minutes of reserve time. Should be ideal for running a 2000 watt system (hence the 2000 in the name).

    I got the batteries and they are probably old stock. They look to be in good condition, but have a date on them of 11-15-06. They were at 12.6 V when I got them. They charged up and seem to be holding at just over 13 volts, which is what Kinetik says they should remain at.

    I took them to the auto parts store and they failed an 1100 cranking amp test. The tester at Checker had the capacity to determine exactly how many cranking amps the battery holds and it showed 500-600. I recharged and again got the same result.

    I contacted the dealer who said I should call Kinetik. This is the response I got, let me know if you buy it:


    'Now as far as the performance is concerned, I think the ~550 CCA test result is about where I would expect these units to test out. The 1100A rating you are referring to is a CA, not a CCA rating. Relatively, you will find most units will produce about half of their CA rating in the CCA test. So if that unit is rated at 1100 CA, you should expect about 550 CCA.

    Now since our batteries are deep cycle batteries, and not starting batteries, CA and CCA ratings are going to be lower than a similar sized cranking battery. However, our batteries will deliver much more reserve capacity. Reserve capacity is what is important for running electronics. Also, both CA and CCA tests are run at 7.2V, which is well below what your electronics will safely run at. They really have no value in determining their ability to run electronics.

    All of that said, I think that your units are likely good working units, even if they may not deliver as many amps in a test. The true test would be to put them into service with your electronics and see how they perform there.'


    I am still reluctant to just throw them in the boat without knowing that they are any better than the batteries that I already have. I thought that I read somewhere that the CCA is about 85% of what the CA is, rather than the 50% he is quoting me. I agree that the number most important as far as stereo stuff goes is going to be the reserve time. I want to be able to let the stereo run and not have dead batteries. Is there any way to do a comparison in the garage? I wondered about hooking the battery up to an inverter and then seeing how long it can run a blow dryer or some such item before losing voltage...any thoughts on this?
    Be excellent to one another.

    #2
    1 question............would you trust a 3 yr old condom?

    Too lazy to grab my Kinetik book, but is that one of the deep cycles and not a starting battery right. For a dedicated stereo bank/battery, the only number that counts is Ah's (amp hrs). So, more then likely, the tester used was not designed to test for this type of battery, but intended to test a starting battery designed for quick and high current discharge such as from a starting battery.

    I doubt the batteries are bad, based on the test, because I feel the test is flawed simply because is was run with the wrong equipment. So, bottom line, I wouldn't trust a 3 year old battery, even if it was never put into service.
    Mikes Liquid Audio: Knowledge Experience Customer Service you can trust-KICKER WetSounds ACME props FlyHigh Custom Ballast Clarion LiquidLumens LEDs Roswell Wave Deflector And More

    Comment


      #3
      That is at the root of the question. I am not sure either that the battery is intended to put out 1100 cranking amps all at once (but that is what they label it as anyway), but instead should put out a smaller number of amps for a longer more consistent period of time, such as when running a stereo.

      Is there any accurate way to measure the amp hours?

      I currently have batteries that are 3.5 years old and had them checked out and they are in perfect condition. But they are not even a deep cycle battery, just starting batteries by Interstate. I don't know if the age of a high quality AGM battery should bother me or not.

      The Kinetiks do not lose any voltage when I put them under a 600 CCA load, so they check out as good batteries when I put them under a smaller load.

      CHP, thanks for your thoughts, and yes, they are deep cycle batteries.
      Be excellent to one another.

      Comment


        #4
        Tall,

        Try this guy with your questions. He does a lot of boat stuff and is a Kinectic dealer.



        Some of his work.

        http://www.kingpincaraudio.com/

        Comment


          #5
          As far as the tech's response it makes sense, but I'm not sure his #s are correct.

          I'm assuming your boat has two batteries...replace one Interstate with the Kinetic, and keep the second Interstate battery in. Many people prefer this setup. When you are listening to music switch just to the Kinetic battery, the deepcycle battery will allow you to run the tunes for days. Then when you want to start the boat and get going, switch over to the Interstate.

          My boat doesn't have room for two batteries (or I'm too lazy to make room), so I have one "Marine" battery, its a bit of a blend between a deepcycle and an auto battery.

          Comment


            #6
            Here is what I have in mind. I can get a larger inverter that connects directly to the battery posts (SPBFan has one that I hope he can ship to me), then I plug in something that has about the same draw as a 1000 Watt stereo (blow dryer, vaccuum) and see how the voltage is maintained over a length of time.

            Then repeat the test with my current battery to see if I am any better off with my 'new' Kinetiks.

            I am trying to think of something that I could just leave it on and walk away however. SOmething that will measure how much energy the battery has put out, like a treadmill that I can check the distance it ran, or something else...any ideas?
            Be excellent to one another.

            Comment


              #7
              Joeprunc,

              In the past I have been offered mixed adise about doing what you suggested with mixing "regular batteries with a Kinectic. That is what I'd like to do, use a regular deep cycle for starting and a Kinectic for listening to music.

              I haven't been able to have anyone tell me with authority that this works OK without risk to one or both batteries in the charging mode.

              I have a 2 battery setup using deep cycle batteries with a Perko switch, they are the Blue Top Optima's. After say 2 hours of run time with my stereo, I can run it dead.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by b/w05 View Post
                Joeprunc,

                In the past I have been offered mixed adise about doing what you suggested with mixing "regular batteries with a Kinectic. That is what I'd like to do, use a regular deep cycle for starting and a Kinectic for listening to music.

                I haven't been able to have anyone tell me with authority that this works OK without risk to one or both batteries in the charging mode.

                I have a 2 battery setup using deep cycle batteries with a Perko switch, they are the Blue Top Optima's. After say 2 hours of run time with my stereo, I can run it dead.
                B/W,

                I think you are right. AGM batteries and Wet cells absorb charges very differently and so when both battereis are connected, one will pull charge from the other and there will be no happy medium. I think they will wear one or the other out quicker.

                CHP and others who seem to know a lot more than me have said whenever possible to not mix the two, even if they are isolated, unless you only charge the one with a completely separate charger at home.
                Be excellent to one another.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by talltigeguy View Post
                  B/W,

                  I think you are right. AGM batteries and Wet cells absorb charges very differently and so when both battereis are connected, one will pull charge from the other and there will be no happy medium. I think they will wear one or the other out quicker.

                  CHP and others who seem to know a lot more than me have said whenever possible to not mix the two, even if they are isolated, unless you only charge the one with a completely separate charger at home.
                  Tall,

                  That's what I'm afraid of. And at $300.00 per Kinetik battery, I don't want to gamble.

                  Can you say how much you paid for the Kinetek?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by talltigeguy View Post
                    B/W,

                    I think you are right. AGM batteries and Wet cells absorb charges very differently and so when both battereis are connected, one will pull charge from the other and there will be no happy medium. I think they will wear one or the other out quicker.

                    CHP and others who seem to know a lot more than me have said whenever possible to not mix the two, even if they are isolated, unless you only charge the one with a completely separate charger at home.
                    Hmmmm...them charging differently slipped my mind, sorry for the miss guidance. However if they are used for stereos in cars, there must be a way to charge them both correctly....

                    The only thing I would be worried with is try to start a motor with a drained 'pure deep cycle'. The CAs are already low with them fully charged. As far as amount of amps that the stereo draws, you should be able to use a multi meter to measure that. Then use the amp hour rating to see how long your stereo can be powered. Here's a good link on Amp Hours

                    The Blue tops are marine batteries (the hybrid), the yellow tops are the pure deep cycles. Most boat owners have the blue tops as they provide good deep cycle characteristics, and also CAs when you need them.

                    Again I apologize for the misguidance, I guess I was just trying to think aloud.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by b/w05 View Post
                      Joeprunc,

                      In the past I have been offered mixed adise about doing what you suggested with mixing "regular batteries with a Kinectic. That is what I'd like to do, use a regular deep cycle for starting and a Kinectic for listening to music.

                      I haven't been able to have anyone tell me with authority that this works OK without risk to one or both batteries in the charging mode.

                      I have a 2 battery setup using deep cycle batteries with a Perko switch, they are the Blue Top Optima's. After say 2 hours of run time with my stereo, I can run it dead.
                      Optimas have about 2/3 the Ah's of a Group 27 Marine Deep cycle. Compare the Ah's to $ of the Optimas and a marine deep-cycle, the deep-cycle have more juice and cost less. Go put a DVOM on your Blue Tops and see what their static charge is.....i'll bet it's about 12.5.

                      I have it on good authority that it is ok to mix Kinetiks and lead-acid wet cell, as long as they are not wired in parallel and are in different banks yet charged by the same source. If it were me, I would replace one of the Blue Tops with a marine starting battery and then the other with a Kinetik (if you want to spend that kinda money) or a good quality marine deep-cycle.
                      Mikes Liquid Audio: Knowledge Experience Customer Service you can trust-KICKER WetSounds ACME props FlyHigh Custom Ballast Clarion LiquidLumens LEDs Roswell Wave Deflector And More

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by talltigeguy View Post
                        Here is what I have in mind. I can get a larger inverter that connects directly to the battery posts (SPBFan has one that I hope he can ship to me), then I plug in something that has about the same draw as a 1000 Watt stereo (blow dryer, vaccuum) and see how the voltage is maintained over a length of time.

                        Then repeat the test with my current battery to see if I am any better off with my 'new' Kinetiks.

                        I am trying to think of something that I could just leave it on and walk away however. Something that will measure how much energy the battery has put out, like a treadmill that I can check the distance it ran, or something else...any ideas?

                        No need for an inverter, make it simple and use a 12V device. Do you something like hand-held spot light on boat? If so, connect it to the battery. As long as you know the current draw of what you connect, you can see what the batteries voltage does.
                        Mikes Liquid Audio: Knowledge Experience Customer Service you can trust-KICKER WetSounds ACME props FlyHigh Custom Ballast Clarion LiquidLumens LEDs Roswell Wave Deflector And More

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by b/w05 View Post
                          Joeprunc,

                          I have a 2 battery setup using deep cycle batteries with a Perko switch, they are the Blue Top Optima's. After say 2 hours of run time with my stereo, I can run it dead.
                          Mark,

                          I have a 1500 watt stereo and run it off one deep cell Costco brand battery. My Blue Sea charges both the cranking and stereo battery but it cannot keep up with the stereo battery.
                          With the stereo battery fully charged I can get about 16 hours of play out of it however that is at low levels except when riding and when my wife is parking and retrieving the truck.
                          I had to install an in boat battery charger and no longer have my battery go t^tts up on me out on the water.
                          How is it you are running your Optima battery dead in two hours?
                          I never had a problem with the stereo going dead in my 06 22V that I bought from Stayton. I know they only had one amp installed in their Tiges and I believe it was just a 400 watt Kicker.
                          For those thinking about installing an in boat charger you must have all gel batteries or all standard batteries. The chargers cannot charge two different types of batteries.
                          Last edited by Carter13; 10-02-2009, 12:47 AM.
                          Formertigeowners.com
                          I used to be a member in the past.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Carter13 View Post
                            Mark,


                            How is it you are running your Optima battery dead in two hours?
                            .
                            My gut feeling is that his stereo battery is starting the day at only a half charge. This seems to be a common problem with the Optima batteries.
                            Mikes Liquid Audio: Knowledge Experience Customer Service you can trust-KICKER WetSounds ACME props FlyHigh Custom Ballast Clarion LiquidLumens LEDs Roswell Wave Deflector And More

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Ditto. ^
                              Or maybe less than half.
                              Formertigeowners.com
                              I used to be a member in the past.

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