GM quality

[spenchey2]

I recall a while back a thread entitled "If GM fails?", I remember hearing some people say that domestic cars didn't carry parts for long periods of time and weren't as well built. This section was in "The Wall Street Journal" today and highlights the fact that most domestic cars are built better than foreign built brands, and the problem lies in the perception that the foreign automakers still make better quality cars. I urge those who haven't driven an American car in a while to go test drive one before making your next purchase(when ever that maybe since the economy SUCKS!).

Are foreign cars better made and safer than U.S. cars?

Years ago, the answer was a definitive yes. But quality surveys and statistics show that GM and Ford have dramatically closed the gap with foreign nameplates, and some of their vehicles now outclass Toyota or Lexus models.

Chrysler is a different story. It still lags in the most closely watched quality studies. In a J.D. Power & Associates survey of new owners last year, GM's Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Pontiac and GMC brands, and Ford's Ford, Mercury and Lincoln brands scored higher on overall quality than Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion and Volkswagen.

At the same time, some foreign companies have lost a bit of their quality edge. Last fall, Consumer Reports magazine lowered Toyota's rankings in its annual car-quality surveys, and stopped automatically recommending all Toyota models because of quality declines.

The problem for GM and Ford is what industry insiders refer to as a perception gap. Their quality has improved, but it hasn't yet sunk in with consumers.

[zad0030]

Toyota just passed GM in sales for the first time in like 75 years.

[illiniboarder88]

In my opinion, GM has made great cars for years. I've had several. Among them have been a 72 olds and a 88 camaro. The engine on the olds had its first problem at about 150,000 miles. We could hear a berring humming, so we did a rebuild. It never broke down. My camaro went into retirement at 140,000 miles. I think I replaced the starter, alternator, and trans mount. That was it. I think GM probably gets a bad rap for two reasons. 1. some of their lower cost cars weren't overly successful or great. ie. Geo. or anything with the quad4 engine. 2. GM stuck with some older technology. I don't see number 2 as being a big problem. They utilized tried and true engines when others were becoming more "innovative." Fine, the pushrod engine isn't the most efficient engine, but it's a great powerplant. I'll take reliable over cutting edge most of the time.

[FIC]

We have been in bussiness since 1956, I have listened to import versus american built since the late 70s. I have offered a chanllenge to many of my custermers over the years which was starting from 1980 to the 1985 when all the domestics were taking a beating , honda, toyota , nissian, etc built a minimum of couple hundred thousand vehicles each per year, I offered them to drive down the streets and I would give them 100.00 dollars for every one of those imports from those years that they could find still operating, in exchange they were to pay me 50.00 dollars for each cutlass, regal, ford , chrysler ,etc , from same time frame , nobody would . If they were better where are they , to this day you will still see more GM, Fords, and Chryslers, they might look like hell , but there still going, and its not because they built more of them , check the build numbers.

[Timmy!]

I think it's funny that Toyota's quality is going down now that their volume is going up. I looked at the new Tundra when I was looking for a new truck and they have a great engine and transmission in that thing but the dashboard and interior aren't up to snuff when compared to Chevy and Ford.

[Tanner]

I think it's funny that Toyota's quality is going down now that their volume is going up. I looked at the new Tundra when I was looking for a new truck and they have a great engine and transmission in that thing but the dashboard and interior aren't up to snuff when compared to Chevy and Ford.

EXACTLY! Then at the time I took into account that the sticker on a fully loaded Tundra was only about 1200 less than a fully loaded Chevy Duramax. I went w/ the Duramax!

[Timmy!]

Same here and that 5.7 V8 gas motor doesn't hold a candle to a Duramax!

[Domsz06]

We have been in bussiness since 1956, I have listened to import versus american built since the late 70s. I have offered a chanllenge to many of my custermers over the years which was starting from 1980 to the 1985 when all the domestics were taking a beating , honda, toyota , nissian, etc built a minimum of couple hundred thousand vehicles each per year, I offered them to drive down the streets and I would give them 100.00 dollars for every one of those imports from those years that they could find still operating, in exchange they were to pay me 50.00 dollars for each cutlass, regal, ford , chrysler ,etc , from same time frame , nobody would . If they were better where are they , to this day you will still see more GM, Fords, and Chryslers, they might look like hell , but there still going, and its not because they built more of them , check the build numbers.

I would take that bet with you. IN cali there are zero old gm cars on the road IMO. But it is what it is. Everyone has there own thing. I own both a import and a GM, and I know my import is built a lot more sound then my GM. It has more bells n whistles too. It is what it is, but I know that right now you can get anything you want it's just a matter of what you want. IMO again I think the Imports ride so much better then the newer Domestic cars. Ride means a lot to me. But I know domestics have gotten better, but I still like my import better.

I think it's funny that Toyota's quality is going down now that their volume is going up. I looked at the new Tundra when I was looking for a new truck and they have a great engine and transmission in that thing but the dashboard and interior aren't up to snuff when compared to Chevy and Ford.

Trucks are different IMO. I don't like import trucks, and think Domestic has the better trucks. I own a ford powerstroke and it's a champ. But If Toyota ever comes with a diesel It will be the last truck I ever buy.

EXACTLY! Then at the time I took into account that the sticker on a fully loaded Tundra was only about 1200 less than a fully loaded Chevy Duramax. I went w/ the Duramax!

Not a bad idea/thing I would say.

Same here and that 5.7 V8 gas motor doesn't hold a candle to a Duramax!

again agreed.

[Timmy!]

I think the amount of domestic vs foreign cars on the roads depends on the region where you live. I'm originally from Toledo and you see at least 3 to 1 on domestic vs foreign cars. Here in Colorado, I think the foreign cars may outnumber the domestics.

[gman]

Domz06, just out of curiosity what is your definition of old? Over here in yorba linda calif you go to the store and its surburban, escalade, yukon, heaven. Just on my street (12houses), we have two silverados (duramax), three suburbans, ford p.u. ,escalade, two tahoes, jeep cherokee and a ford explorer
I had a dodge intrepid with the 3.5l engine. That car just ran and ran. Biggest repair was the water pump. It had 217k+ miles on it when i got a toyota camry with a v6 that never rode anywhere near as nice as the intrepid and the gas mileage was almost the same. The seating in the camry was not as comfortable. Never was real happy with it. Had a 1999 GMC Yukon 4x4. Great SUV and very reliable. Good hard pulling suv. Now its the Duramax. What a machine. Absolutely great. Also had a 77 olds cutlass supreme. Great car. Have a toyota highlander and its ok nothing to write home about. It sure is easy to get gm /ford parts also. that is my
You do have a nice vet!

[sparky216]

My 02 Tahoe has 156009 miles on it. Origional brakes and plenty of oil changes. I have spend exactly $903 dollars on new tires and that is it. Runs like a champ still. My 03 Burban has had a few more dollars pumped into it but has 132000 miles and runs like a champ too. The 06 Mercedes has costed me about $1500 in maintance alone, but only has 35k on it, but I have spend more money ensuring that it doesn't fail in two years than I have total on my GM trucks. I'll stick with GM thank you very much. Unfortunaelty the Benz is SOOOOOO fun to drive.....so I put up with the expense!

[illiniboarder88]

I think there are a variety of factors at play. I personally would buy domestic, but I know there are lots out there that disagree with me. My guess is that toyota and honda offer some advantages in their lower end cars. They seem to make dependable, fuel efficient cars. They also have lower labor costs, so it makes sense that they can offer more bang for their buck on those lower tier automobiles. Honda, in particular, also has done a good job of offering stripped down cars. You see more hondas out there with no equipment on them than anything else. As such, they get that price down some more. For example, there are a lot of mid 90's Hondas out there that don't have power steering. You don't see nearly as many GM's or Fords out there without it. Just my 2 cents worth.

[TeamAllen]

I hope you are right spenchy2! I would love a more reliable domestic vehicle!

I wonder what they mean by quality? It might be better quality in the initial purchase, but down the road what is the reliability? I keep my cars for 10 years. I have personally owned two toyotas over 350,000 miles each. I sold them still running, dependably, with the original drive trains intact. I did not have the same experience with my domestic vehicles as gman is having.

Every year you hear the domestics say they are closer to, equal to or better than the Japanese imports. I will wait and see the track record of these improved vehicles after a few years. If their history shows dramatic improvement I will look at them. If you look at Consumers Reports, as stated above, and look at the used vehicles you will see the repair history on the domestics are generally black dots (bad) and the Japanese vehicles have red dots (good). I am talking in general, of course. I am sure there are a few variants on either side.

Anyway, I still stick with, it's your $, buy what you want.

[spenchey]

Toyota just passed GM in sales for the first time in like 75 years.

I bet if you polled anyone walking up and down the street that wouldn't be news to them. Its preception, the public has long thought that toyota has out sold the big three for a long time.

[dogbert]

I'd buy a domestic truck over import, but I gotta say, my small daily driver is a VW. It's better built and drives better than either a Japanese or domestic car in its class.

Chrysler quality does suck, but my wife loves her minivan. They are pretty practical with that stow-n-go seating.