Economy

[Domsz06]

problem with the unions is they will not agree to lower wages, so we need to get rid of them. otherwise this issue will never die.

Sorry but u don't deserve 35 and hour to hold a shovel in the oil fields, or 45 to push a button to install a windshield on a car.

[talltigeguy]

. Although I am a firm believer in employee rights I think unions are killing big business with the high salaries they demand as well as the unbelievable medical and pension benefits they get compared to the average employee.

To turn some of economy woes around, the American Union worker may need to look at do they want to work for fair and reasonable wages and benefits or let a significant part of the hurting economy go overseas also and causing even bigger problems in industries that are supported by the big three.

You are correct. GM has one guy getting a huge pension and benefits at age 50 for every 2 guys who are working. That is not sustainable. The greed of the unions are not well tolerated by the rest of us.

Whoever twisted the financial side of things to loan money to people for homes they could not afford thinking that they can refinance every 3 years for the rest of their lives, and never have to pay the piper is the first who needs to take a beating. Most serious people feel the home market is the first root of all of the problems.

You gotta watch this:



Makes me wonder if the run up in oil/gas was entirely driven by speculation.

That was a nice 60 minutes article. Agrees exactly with what I said.

The thing they hinted at, but did not emphasize is that the guys making the decisions made awesome choices...for themselves. They were paid to make money for the company today without regards for the future. It was short sighted for sure, but long term was not in the decision makers' eyes. They got rich, and then they will be just fine when they walk away.

Did you guys hear about the huge party at AIG (I think it was AIG) even while they were asking for bailout money from us?

[Domsz06]

the greed is everywhere with the unions. It's sick and stupid!!!

[chpthril]

Sitting here watching the NBC news and they are interviewing a UAW member who is whining about the need to bail out the auto makers That's like the fox asking to bail out the chicken farmer who is selling his farm cause all his livestock is disappearing

There are way to many people willing to work that are without a job, they should give the union workers a choice: quit or get fired, and then hire those that want to really work for a living.

Read this the other day, Toyota's CEO makes a little over a mil per year and the company expects to post a decent profit this year despite the slow economy. The CEO's of the big 3 make way more, as in millions more per year, but their companies are posting record losses every qtr and want OUR tax dollars to bail them out. Time to change the way things are done Oh, did I mention that Toyota , and I believe Honda, is a non-union, employee owned company, hmmm.

The only reason I support helping the big 3 out is because of all the other vendors that will be put out of work because of their collapse.

[teachercop]

I wonder if in response to the declining economy if we may see some boat mergers as a survival strategy?

MasterSanger

MBSupra

AdvantageCenturion

MalibuEliminator

[sparky216]

I wonder if in response to the declining economy if we may see some boat mergers as a survival strategy?

MasterSanger

MBSupra

AdvantageCenturion

MalibuEliminator

I like EpicTige'

[skyski_tige]

I like EpicTige'

I am not an Epic fan... I don't like tht one...

[dogbert]

Sitting here watching the NBC news and they are interviewing a UAW member who is whining about the need to bail out the auto makers That's like the fox asking to bail out the chicken farmer who is selling his farm cause all his livestock is disappearing

There are way to many people willing to work that are without a job, they should give the union workers a choice: quit or get fired, and then hire those that want to really work for a living.

....

The only reason I support helping the big 3 out is because of all the other vendors that will be put out of work because of their collapse.

That's exactly why bankruptcy may not be the worst thing that can happen to the Big 3. Take a look at the airline industry. Sure, everyone's sucking wind a bit now, but there's one major carrier that went through bankruptcy twice and has emerged the better for it. It forces the unions to come to terms and forces the company to fix what's broken.

There is a lot of really innovative stuff happening at the big 3, but they are hampered by their archaic structure. I don't think they'll disappear entirely, but it's time to face reality and realize that something drastic needs to happen.

BTW, this is where I think Obama is a bit naive. He still believes you can protect those jobs, which is at the root of the problem. You can't. You're better of spending that money preparing people to do something else.

We're in the midst of a giant equalization in the global economy. Sure, you have a few areas where low wages are causing massive shifts in labor opportunities, but that will balance out. We've already seen it in the software industry. Outsourcing is no longer a cost argument. It used to be purely a cost proposition (1/3 the labor costs), but that probably had more to do with the fact that we had massive salary inflation domestically. Now that there are alternatives, salaries are once again more reasonable and offshore salaries have gone up dramatically. It's all going to balance out, albeit with some tremendous upheaval.

But, if you think you can stop it from happening, you're in a world of hurt. I hope Obama realizes this before he pushes our country to the brink of bankruptcy, because that would be bad.

[da.bell]

Interesting article out of Tige.

http://www.wakeworld.com/getarticle.asp?articleid=1955

[jwanck11]

Thanks for posting the 60 min vid Torsten. The CDS are at the heart of this mess. I remember writing about this in another thread... The scariest part of this is that the bulk of CDS are still largely under the covers and out of sight... on napkins somewhere. The guess is 50-60 Trillion Dollars based on voluntary surveys in a completely unregulated market.

Yeah, unions are a problem, but in reality, a relatively small aspect of things turning around. The more an american worker makes, the more they have to spend, propping up the critical "C" aspect of GDP. Take away income and thelikelihood is that will drive things even farther into the toilet.

The big 3 fail ... at the same time? My guess is that the impact would be nothing short of massive.

Outsourcing is a cost proposition, but the focus I believe is on the liability aspects of workers e.g., pensions, insurance costs, on-site liabilities, legal liabilities, etc. rather than a labor-based per unit cost comparison.

[jwanck11]

Interesting article out of Tige.

http://www.wakeworld.com/getarticle.asp?articleid=1955

Yeah.. that is an interesting article. I do hope this is something that Tige will build on and not rest on.

[dingleberry]

Interesting article out of Tige.

http://www.wakeworld.com/getarticle.asp?articleid=1955

I think it is likely that part of the reason that a large percentage of ordered boats have been sold is because not nearly as many boat orders have been placed. Too many dealers still have significant numbers of '07 and '08 unsold stock, and are probably placing very small '09 orders at this time.

Still, I certainly hope that Tige is performing better than the competition, and will come through this downturn in a strong position.

[Domsz06]

that article was very interesting. Esp since like everyone has said there are huge inventories of 07 and 08 models.

We are in the verge of a huge downfall. I agree with what has been said I hope Obama realizes that he can't keep the unions.

Guess we will see. My stepdad has is own business and he HATES the unions and will not use them unless he has too.

[MoneyPity]

the greed is everywhere with the unions. It's sick and stupid!!!

Over the years I have held a couple of Union Jobs when in retail and when working in an electronics company withe Communication Workers of America.

The pay was unbelievable for a rookie starting out. These were Prue K days but the pension money put into an account for me by the companies thru the unions was unreal for someone just out of the Corps. Full Medical/Dental cost me 0 dollars. The only employment related expense was $30 a week Union dues.

The biggest issue in production related union jobs was that there was very little incentive to become more productive. You got raises on a schedule irregardless of capability to be effective at the job which to me was frustrating as the Money Pity stuff.

The more this stuff continued with less incentive low production etc the union finally put a $25 ,000,000 arm of a large corporation out of business in the medical market. Now that is pretty hard to do.

Unions need radical change from within or they will continue see erosion of US jobs in Automotive and related sectors. The construction industry is one were they still may have a long term chance but if the bottom falls out of home, office, manufacturing plant construction it won't do any good to be in a union. We already have too much excessive commercial space in our downtown skyscrapers so jobs will continue to become scarce in the steel workers unions.

Even though pay was great when I belonged to a union I could not handle the work rules, living by the break/lunch buzzers and the start and end time buzzers. It was a bad dream for a year until I altered career path and went to work for smaller businesses.

As I said I am for fair wages and benefits for employees. Every 2 years I have salary studies done for the employees in my part of the company and I will adjust to keep them on board, productive and willing to do what it takes to keep the company profitable with quality software. Like many companies it is no longer a free ride with med benefits. We pay 70% of the employee and 50% of the dependent coverage. In a software group our average developer has been with us for 8+ years and rising while productivity continues to improve. We recognize extra efforts and reward them but we do not give any one including our principal Shareholder and CEO any free rides.

[Domsz06]

Nicely said money!!!