Anybody else getting laid off?

[Domsz06]

well said Razz!!!

[MoneyPity]

At least the unknown period is over and I can start planning

Sorry to hear that you got hit also. It looks like a few 50+ members are getting layed off and it sure is difficult search at 50+. I have a few months and then I am either transfered as part of the acquired company for the short term transition period, or I am on the street for a while.

I wish everyone good luck. Hopefully those who work with technology have stayed involved in development as well as Technical Management. If you are in the Microsoft world become familiar with .Net3.5 and Silverlight if you haven't already. With the pace of new MS and related tools continuing education is a must.

Typical C/S apps are fading fast in the user community but not in the production world here in the rust bucket of technology. Since mid 2007 the company I am at has layed off over 30% of the work force. Programmers have been just as vulnerable as any tech skill here. The company wants to max the bottom line by chopping expenses deeply and price increases quarterly. In our market we are making money but the economy is causing delays in new systems and version upgrades of existing systems.

For everyone affected by the layoff's this season good luck. good hunting.

Back to regularly scheduled programming Sorry for the interruption

[scoot18]

"Day late and a dollar short",

Let's get real, "Buy American" isn't valid anymore. People looked the other way when it really mattered to buy american. When we as a nation could really have done something about it, we sold ourselves out for lower prices and fast and easy jobs that went away. Now what? There's nothing left for the american masses worth buying short of the big 3 who've proven they can't compete largely due to politics & bloat. What's left that's going to make an impact? As all the big manufacturers are either importing/building offshore or being built in country by offshore owned companies what do we buy? Candles?

Now icons like GM are broke or will be, hundreds of thousands are unemployed or will be, this thing will last for years.

It isn't valid anymore, because like you said, there is nothing American left to buy. So if it is candles we buy, THEN BUY THEM and ONLY THEM. We as Americans need to take a stand and bring our $$$$ back here. The low life's in society need to suck it up and take the low paying jobs that they qualify for instead of riding the system. Big business in some ways is forced to take the jobs over seas because our own rif raff think they are too good for these low paying jobs manufacturing many of the products we should be buying that can be prodcued here.

If we want the good jobs, steady economy, healthy paychecks we need to keep as much of our revenue here in our own borders. Don't be fooled buy Toyota & Honda claiming that there cars are built here, assembled yes, but many and most of the parts are made in Japan, shipped in containers & put together here. Yes this does create a few American jobs, but the impact it makes, takes away many more jobs than it creates, esp in other areas such as suppliers and vendors. And don't forget all the revenues from sales goes back to the mother land "Japan." Not to mention our wonderful goverenment as blind as they are, think they are providing American jobs, allow these co. to build & operate there manufacturing plants tax free for how many years, meanwhile our own born and raised manufactures pay absorbanent taxes.

I will tell you another interesting fact about the big 3. One reason why they are losing money is because they can't compete on legacy cost. Those are the retirements, pensions, health care coverage for all retired employee's. The big 3 average about $1,700.00 cost in every car before any part is stamped, bolt is machined, designs are drafted for legacy cost. Where as the foreign counter parts who assemble their products here, paying the laborer less per hr and fewer and smaller benefits average about $200.00 per car in legacy cost. So right off the bat the big 3 are in the hole $1,500.00 for every unit assembled.

Buy American, bring it back, if it's not made here don't buy it! Easier said than done.

[scoot18]

Sorry that was so long, in a nutshell we all have to help each other, support your brother and your neighbor.

[skyski_tige]

Startup costs for a new vehicle is out of sight also. Every new car will need an entire new set of fixtures to hold the stampings. I thought I heard it cost 50 million to launch a new vehicle.

[Razzman]

Scoot i don't think anyone's fooled here. We all know they import product to assemble in their US plants.

If buying candles and only candles or any reasonable facsimile was feasible then it might happen. The major retailers are buying foreign so the consumer doesn't have much choice. Just for excersize go to Walmart, Target or the like and see how many products you can find made in the usa?

Legacy costs are only a fraction of the big3's (and others) problems. They are also being sucked dry by another american legacy, the unions. And yes i think unoins suck just for the record. They are so corrupt not even the fed will do anything about the problem.

Example, I employ only union emplyees because the union has the power to black list a company for not doing so. The employees pay out $35 a month for dues, we as the employer have to pay out another $15 per hour, per employee to the union! This amounts to roughly $25K per month for the privelage of using union employees so we can actually work. Hmmm, were's the scam, deciept and corruption here? You think there'a problem when the union local builds a nice huge oversize building and names it after the current sitting local president? Geez! Talk about throwing it back in your face huh? Unons served a purpose many years ago to protect emplyees, now they are corrupt originaztions for the sole purpose of padding thier own pockets.

If this country abolished unions and operated on a fair wage basis for a fair days work, not i'll pay you $70 and hour so you can sit on your *** and do nothing you lazy fat f**k! We'd actually do ok.

And to top it all off, it was this exact issue that first started causing companies to go offshore. Sorry if i rumple any union feelings and went off on a tangent but i was/am on both sides of the fence and they did/do NOTHING but suck me dry, as a one-time union employee and an employer.

Think about it seriously. Dump unions and some of the other factors that have caused employers to go offshore and some if not most might be willing to bring jobs back to the USA.

Just my

[chpthril]

Startup costs for a new vehicle is out of sight also. Every new car will need an entire new set of fixtures to hold the stampings. I thought I heard it cost 50 million to launch a new vehicle.

Do you know the sucky-3 are in the tank? Not only what has been mentioned already, but as the buying trends of America changes, they cant change with it. They have to close a plant(s) down when a model is not selling. This is not only a loss of thousands of jobs, but the expense of the whole plant going down the drain.

Here's why the import companies can survive, They built their plants so that they can be refitted and retooled in a short period of down-time and start producing and entirely new model with the same plant and workforce. I think I remember hearing in like a week.

For some reason, American manufacturing lack foresight

[Razzman]

Just another example. So we as a common collective on this forum can display many reasons why this is happening, how can the big 3 over the years not have seen this coming and fixed the issues before it became critical?

Money and politics.

This just came onto CNN.com;

"November layoffs hit wide swath of economy

The first week of November has been brutal for the job market, with nearly 15,000 announced job cuts from a slew of companies across multiple industries, CNNMoney reports. Eight companies announced job cuts this week, representing retail, finance, leisure, pharmaceutical, toy and automobile manufacturing."

This country had better pull together fast and quit panicking or we are in for a full blown depression.

[Domsz06]

Scoot i don't think anyone's fooled here. We all know they import product to assemble in their US plants.

If buying candles and only candles or any reasonable facsimile was feasible then it might happen. The major retailers are buying foreign so the consumer doesn't have much choice. Just for excersize go to Walmart, Target or the like and see how many products you can find made in the usa?

Legacy costs are only a fraction of the big3's (and others) problems. They are also being sucked dry by another american legacy, the unions. And yes i think unoins suck just for the record. They are so corrupt not even the fed will do anything about the problem.

Example, I employ only union emplyees because the union has the power to black list a company for not doing so. The employees pay out $35 a month for dues, we as the employer have to pay out another $15 per hour, per employee to the union! This amounts to roughly $25K per month for the privelage of using union employees so we can actually work. Hmmm, were's the scam, deciept and corruption here? You think there'a problem when the union local builds a nice huge oversize building and names it after the current sitting local president? Geez! Talk about throwing it back in your face huh? Unons served a purpose many years ago to protect emplyees, now they are corrupt originaztions for the sole purpose of padding thier own pockets.

If this country abolished unions and operated on a fair wage basis for a fair days work, not i'll pay you $70 and hour so you can sit on your *** and do nothing you lazy fat f**k! We'd actually do ok.

And to top it all off, it was this exact issue that first started causing companies to go offshore. Sorry if i rumple any union feelings and went off on a tangent but i was/am on both sides of the fence and they did/do NOTHING but suck me dry, as a one-time union employee and an employer.

Think about it seriously. Dump unions and some of the other factors that have caused employers to go offshore and some if not most might be willing to bring jobs back to the USA.

Just my

Well said and OH SO TRUE!!

[chadster2]

I've been doing construction for ever... I don't buy into unions, but...
I have to fight (I mean FIGHT) with non union undocumented workers.
I hate it.... They have their national bond, I've got nauda.
Pay me the same amount for the same job and I'm happy, but I'd be much
better off if I was compeating on level ground. Unions still have a place.
As long as there is greed, we will need unions. Unions are almost as bad
as the greed of a boss, but we still need a check for greed. I'm telling you
if we can't follow the laws of this country, we need Unions. So we need Unions.
It's real bad to be the only White guy working and having the undocumented
"workers" working at f**king with my work to run me off. It happens all the time.
The boss wants to pay less and less not understanding the person he is cheating
out of fair pay is the one that would be buying his product, is the one that would be paying taxes, is the one that would be watching his back. I love working hard
but I'm done with fighting with undocumented workers. I'll out produce them
3 (or 4) to 1 all day long. (a Union would make it 1 to 1)

[chadster2]

AND another thing.. some small buisnesses hire undocumented workers taking
the jobs of our kids. They say they can't find anybody wanting to work....
The case is, They can't find anybody to do it for their price... da... how about
pay more or treat the workers better... I know it's because the compatition
doesn't do it that way eather..
I know a white kid that got fired from washing dishes, why...
He couldn't speak spanish like all his co workers (in America).
Unions suck hind tit but they are sadly needed untill greed is gone....
Do you realize what would happen to the price of houses if only documented
workers were working on them......
do you realize much better health care would be if only documented people
were getting it......
I know this thread was going a different direction but all this is about all that.
greed and unions unions and greed money in and money out
The bottem half of americans (the middle half) would be in demand. They are not,
because greedy bosses say they can't compeat with the other guy.
TRUE but wrong....... so we give our jobs to other nations, and wonder
why we are out of money and out of work.... and don't have low end workers
I wish we didn't need lawyers.... we do
I wish we didn't need unions.... we do
AND...... that's all I want to say about that.

[scoot18]

These are all very good points, and Razz I completely forgot about those stinkin unions. They are a big part of the problem. Chadster I agree with you too, unions have their place in certain areas but certainly not building cars and trucks anymore. I have a good buddy that worked at the Ford F150 plant here in Norfolk (Which shut down about 2 years ago) and he used to share horror stories with me about some of the dirt bags that would take advantage of Ford due to union rules and regs, and the union reps who sat back and defended them, and those guys sat aroudn and did just about nothing and took home large salaries, and Ford couldn't do anything about it. Kind of like being forced to have marshall law inside your own home during peaceful times, and not be able to do anything about it, and you are forced to pay for it.

Razz: I agree with you about the retailers, hard to find anything made in USA.

[Original Wing Nut]

I feel for those that are really feeling the economy crunch. I feel fortunate to have work and the future is very promising. I have been promoted (position not advance in pay) and although it is a great opportunity, my first responsibility is a couple of layoffs. I think it is somewhat of a test as to how I will handle the stress involved, as well as helping the company into the future. I will be laying off two of the partners on a project that we are completing, they have 35 plus years in the business, they still will get there share of the partnership, but salaries and benefits are no longer. They are or should be very financially secure. It is time for them to retire and the company is moving in other directions, blah, blah blah... I know this is just excuse crap. I have been given the assignment/responsibility to do this. So today is gonna suck big time. This post may result in a bunch of Wingnut is a _______ or has no conscience or what ever? I also thought that those who have had similar experience may sympathise with my situation. Those that have been on the other side, I do know it is definitely harder on you. I wish it were warm and sunny outside as later today I could sure use some time in the Tigé. I hope all Tigé Owners have a better day than I and those I am involved with today.

[da.bell]

OWN, that is never fun. Good luck and make sure you stand your ground. It's not going to be easy and you will be called names.

[Matt Garcia]

Good luck OWN. That sucks.

I have had a few friends laid off recently. One was my wife's best friend, she worked as a realtor for new homes and had been with the company for 7 years. One friend did commercial construction and the other worked as a web designer.

As for me thankfully I still am still secure in my job. Not to sound like an *** but I have had so much requests for freelance work that I am turning them down. I still take on a few but turn down about half of them.