No BAILOUT!!!

[G-MONEY]

I guess you missed the other thread that had the same thing. Whats funny is that Math is wrong.
You would really only get $425

As I was reading that "email" I was doing quick math in my head and couldn't figure out where they were getting $425,000 per person - so I used a calculator and got $425 as well. That sucks because it sounded good - too good...to be true!

Thats why it was in a email...

They are always too good to be true

[sparky216]

Wonder if they will pass a "modified" package later this week?

[dogbert]

It's like the S&L crisis all over again. Seems like we have one of these every 10 years. Major corrections. Right before it we have irrational exuberance. There's usually a few people who go to jail as a result and a lot of little guys get burned, either by losing their jobs or through personal bankruptcy.

I'm not saying it's right, but people have to take some responsibility with their own money. No one wants to own up to the fact that they gambled and lost.

It's going to take a while for this to go away. I don't think we'll see something on the magnitude of the late 20's, but it's going to be more like the mid-to-late 80's or 2000.

Everyone was talking about a housing bubble burst, well it happened a few months back. Now we're seeing the consequences of this as people who leveraged themselves too much can't recover.

Just like in the late 90's, everyone was expecting some kind of calamity for Y2K, but as it came and went, they partied on. 6 months later everything came to a grinding halt in Tech. That had a significant impact on the economy.

[chpthril]

Somewhat related but, It was announced yesterday that Wachovia Bank, one of the largest and with it's home office located here in Charlotte NC, is selling off most of the bank to Citi Group. They are in the hole like other financial institutions.

Here is how the lack of a bail out will be effecting us: Wachovia's uptown home office, currently occupying 2 high-rises, will be moving to New York. Many positions will be eliminated because of duplication. This will put out right on the street, a huge number or middle class, white-collar working class people.

Well, they stop spending money, they stop buying cars and other wants, they cant pay their mortgage so the home goes into foreclosure even though they bought it right unlike some many that are at the root of this discussion.

This is only a small example of what will happen if our Gov does not do something quick. This bailout is more then just giving money to companies that made bad lending desiccation's. To not pass the bailout simply to punish the companies for their loose lending, will do little to hurt the COE's who have already lined thier pockets, but if the banks go under, it will effect many more jobs then just those of people employed by them.

I know 4 close friends that will be effected by this Wachovia sale, I wish them the best.

[jwanck11]

Tall,
You are correct, reform also has to come into play. Meaning that lending standards need to be tightened and there is the whole credit card mess that is out there looming. We all know somebody who is completely living beyond their means by living off of credit. I don't want to bail that guy out. But the problem we face is that the US is consider a "safe haven" for foriegn investors, that confidence is being eroded and currently the US government needs foriegn investment to sustain our economy. We need some kind of a plan to restore stability and confidence. A lot of the sell off is fear-based that started with the collapse of Bear Stearns and the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers.

In regards to personal savings and reducing debt. There is no doubt that Americans save too little and are burdened with too much debt. I would like to see reform in how much credit can be extended by predatory banks to stupid people who can't make the payments. The idea of the government assuming the debt is that it restores confidence in the financial system and that the government will be able to recoup the debt when the housing market turns up. The bad side of the plan from my perspective is inserting the government more into the market and the possibility of turning our nation more into socialist nation.

The thing that really pisses me off is Washington's dysfunctional response of partisanship politics. In a true national crisis, all they can do is try to get political gain and blame the other. Both parties are to blame, especially the democrats wanting Fannie Mae to be the vehicle to provide a "home for everybody". But when either party wanted to try to solve the problem, the other would block it out due to partisanship. We need a leader that can bring the country together. Bush is too unpopular and too much of a lame duck. Pelosi demonstrated today that she is not that leader. Can McCain or Obama do it?

Agree completely Moki.

There needs to be better lending practices to individuals - predatory lending as well as over-zealous personalities has taken us where we are.

At the same time, lending that really matters to me is to companies. Companies create jobs that create real wealth and therefore spending power. I am concerned that the dry-up of funds to companies is a very scary proposition.

PS. I am not an Obama supporter, but like what he is saying today.

Tall. I am not opposed to what you are saying at all and I hope I've not come across as being diametrically opposed! I just think that intervention is needed at this point.

Great points Dog, however this is global and on a scale that could likely surpass the depression if left unchecked. The other blips mentioned were painful, but blips nonetheless. This is massive and threatens the world economy...

[talltigeguy]

Here is how the lack of a bail out will be effecting us: Wachovia's uptown home office, currently occupying 2 high-rises, will be moving to New York. Many positions will be eliminated because of duplication. This will put out right on the street, a huge number or middle class, white-collar working class people.

Well, they stop spending money, they stop buying cars and other wants, they cant pay their mortgage so the home goes into foreclosure even though they bought it right unlike some many that are at the root of this discussion.

Now there will have to be more people in New York to manage the business, right? Or the new owner will have to continue some operations where they currently are? They cannot possibly acquire a business of that size without needing most of the employees to continue to manage it. Unless Wachovia is already so inefficient that they really can acquire it and just assimilate everyone's jobs.

I am against the government being involved so heavily here. We will still have to pay the price for this bailout, now or later.

The votes were not that partisan on this package. There were many on both sides that voted against it.

Jwanck, what are the consequences of the government bailout? Many have talked about what will happen if the government does nothing, but what will be the consequence if they do something? No one seems to tell me exactly what to expect there.

[da.bell]

Funny that the stock markets are up today!!!

[jwanck11]

Now there will have to be more people in New York to manage the business, right? Or the new owner will have to continue some operations where they currently are? They cannot possibly acquire a business of that size without needing most of the employees to continue to manage it. Unless Wachovia is already so inefficient that they really can acquire it and just assimilate everyone's jobs.

I think the likelihood is there will be far fewer jobs ... more with less ... this would be consistent with mergers/take-overs

I am against the government being involved so heavily here. We will still have to pay the price for this bailout, now or later.

The point lawmakers are using here is that the cost may be minimized/negligable assuming a housing turn around. The gov't is buying the debt at a substantial discount. With a turnaround, there is the likelihood that they can sell the assumed debt at a premium. There may be no "real" cost at all. This is a long-run picture! My question here is how will the surplus be returned to the tax-payer. The really junky part is that the surpluss, if it materializes will be spent on pork. I hate BG!

The votes were not that partisan on this package. There were many on both sides that voted against it.

I believe this to be more a function of being more concerned with one's job than the state of affairs. This is seen as Big Government and therefore a 2/3 "No" vote from Republicans was to be expected...

Jwanck, what are the consequences of the government bailout? Many have talked about what will happen if the government does nothing, but what will be the consequence if they do something? No one seems to tell me exactly what to expect there.

Prolly best to scour the internets for good answers on this.

Just my viewpoint(!) The main thing is that Gov't (read as we the people) might spend this 700B to +1T and it might not restore confidence. That would be a really bad thing! Without restored confidence, there might a) no additional lending and b) lead to a run on the banks anyway leading to a collapse... Then again, if we do nothing, it is more likely that the run will continue to occur anyway. A bigger issue is where foreign investers (big private as well as whole countries) might start backing out. Far-fetched and fatalistic, but possible/plausible and very dire indeed.

Secondly, housing (massive element behind this crunch) does not turn around within 2-4 years (highly unlikely) and the gov't find itself the owner of potentially increasing amounts of debt that can not be passed back into the private sector. The onus of which is for the tax payer to continue to foot the expenses of servicing the debts. Also see point 1 above and tack on the fact that with eroding confidence in the banking sector, there is now also eroding confidence in the public sector as well. Read this as its time to get on a space ship and look for greener pastures...

Like I said though... check out the internets for better more relevant information.

Just my !!!

[Fast1911]

PANIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jwanck11]

where you been??? the panic has been here for quite awhile!

[ktmrider1]

Looks like its back on like Donkey Kong...

[kko]

I guess you missed the other thread that had the same thing. Whats funny is that Math is wrong.
You would really only get $425

Man that aint right i was ready to elect G-MONEY prez and had half that money was spent. Then you come long and tell me im only getting $425.00 thats .
It did make my wonder how bad "Rock Bottom" would be. But when Bush said he would like to let the ones who made the bad decisions pay the price but he was fearful for the rest of the economy going into a total tailspin. so im not real sure i want to see "Rock Bottom". that being said i dont want my tax dollars going to pay for other peoples bad dept. i have enough of my own dept to deal with.

Let me hear some pros and cons on two issues.
1.Flat tax - Me im for it this way "everybody" pays.
2.Govt. provided healthcare- Me Im on the fence and it would really depend on the plan.

[jwanck11]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/02/news...ion=2008100214

[da.bell]

Well, tax hikes are coming now.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26987291/

[Fast1911]

Well, tax hikes are coming now.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26987291/

whew, just in time, I was feeling the need to part with more of my money