Osama-Hiden

[Fast1911]

It's not just the Govt. that is to blame for this mess, the builders and lenders share a huge chunk of responsibility as well. My ex-wife used to sell new homes for a builder that also had their own mortgage company and they would always find a way to get someone into a house to get that huge profit, especially if someone had ANY down payment at all. When I was married to her she would come home a few times a week and just be in shock that the builder/lender approved someone who had only declared bankruptcy 4 years ago but had $5k in cash to put down on a $250k house even though they only made x amount per month and clearly could not afford to live there.

Yes, and the Clinton administration started the legislation to allow that type of borrowing to happen. It is absolutely the lenders greed that got us into this mess, however, if the legislation was not there to make it easier for people to get into housing then things might be different.

[Timmy!]

Lets not blame the borrowers. They did nothing wrong...

Oh of course not....they were just "sold" on the fact that they "could" afford said houses when they knew they couldn't. IMO there is no single person/party that can be blamed for the whole thing, it was a whole stack of problems put together. I'm sure the first few buyers were just out dreaming of affording a nice house and then some salesperson talked to someone and said "let's see if we can get them into this thing" and then they did and then it became the whole "well so and so had worse credit than I do and they got a house" or "my credit isn't that much worse than theirs" and they just kept going lower and lower and doing whatever they could to get people in and the bad borrowers just kept lining up because they wanted a piece of it even if they knew it would be only for a few months.

Proof that the builders helped: Class action suit against Beazer homes

[Fast1911]

Oh of course not....they were just "sold" on the fact that they "could" afford said houses when they knew they couldn't. IMO there is no single person/party that can be blamed for the whole thing, it was a whole stack of problems put together. I'm sure the first few buyers were just out dreaming of affording a nice house and then some salesperson talked to someone and said "let's see if we can get them into this thing" and then they did and then it became the whole "well so and so had worse credit than I do and they got a house" or "my credit isn't that much worse than theirs" and they just kept going lower and lower and doing whatever they could to get people in and the bad borrowers just kept lining up because they wanted a piece of it even if they knew it would be only for a few months.

Proof that the builders helped: Class action suit against Beazer homes

Timmy, I agree with what you are saying, I'm just saying the legislation that Bill Clinton put into law opened the door for all of this........

[chpthril]

Keep in mind that we are not about to elect the borrowers, lenders, or builders, but a Presidential candidate that fallows the same principals as the one that let this mess get started and could potentially do similar.

[jwanck11]

I agree that blame needs to be placed with those involved especially the uninformed consumer that did not bother to take the time to understand what an ARM and Interest Only loan meant and what the responsibility was in holding one. Not saying Clinton caused this mess, but did set the ball in motion that allowed it to happen.

BUT,

Those tight lending practices were in place for a reason because someone thought that it would not be a good idea to help a family with a combined household income of $40k get into a $250K house. They greedy lenders should have had foresight to see what might happen, but under the Clinton Admin, these tight guidlines were eased up. I agree that fiscal matters are mostly in the hands of the private market, but when the Feds are backing these institutions, there is, and should be, some oversight.

Yup, no doubt that blame can and should be passed around. All entities involved share ownership. The government was definitely a part... a small part comparatively. Clinton himself is not to blame. He alone could control nothing (neither will Obama nor McCain.)

To simplify:

The borrowers fault was stupidity (They got into a car more powerful than they could handle)

The individual lenders fault was greed (they sold the aforementioned car to the dummies)

The governments fault was visions of granduer (they cut the brake lines)

The Fed, Investment banks and Derivative clearers, were the real behind the scenes entity that fubar'd everything up. (They put the 1000HP engine into the volkswagon beetle - and stepped on the gas pedal (derivatives) hands down.)

[jwanck11]

Yes, and the Clinton administration started the legislation to allow that type of borrowing to happen. It is absolutely the lenders greed that got us into this mess, however, if the legislation was not there to make it easier for people to get into housing then things might be different.

That really came from the most powerful person on the planet at the time - NOT Bill Clinton -But one Alan Greenspan.

[Fast1911]

That really came from the most powerful person on the planet at the time - NOT Bill Clinton -But one Alan Greenspan.

really?

http://www.topix.com/us/democrat/200...red-fannie-mae

[Fast1911]

Screw it...................I changed my mind

[chpthril]

Screw it...................I changed my mind

Well, he probably wasn't born here either

[Fast1911]

Well, he probably wasn't born here either

HAHAHA, apparently that doesn't matter ............

[chpthril]

HAHAHA, apparently that doesn't matter ............

Yeah, he'll be the first in line when he signs into law to give amnesty to illegals

[Timmy!]

So much for "Drill, baby, drill!" This really sounds like it's working
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/27/comm...ller/index.htm

[jwanck11]

really?

http://www.topix.com/us/democrat/200...red-fannie-mae

yep... really

[Fast1911]

yep... really

did you read that article, I can find more on the same subject? It doesn't mention Greenspan

[skyski_tige]

This is some crazy chit...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6080449.html

ATF: Skinhead plot to kill Obama broken up

WASHINGTON — Federal agents have broken up a plot to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and shoot or decapitate 102 black people in a Tennessee murder spree, the ATF said today.

In court records unsealed day, federal agents said they disrupted plans to rob a gun store and target a predominantly African-American high school by two neo-Nazi skinheads. Agents said the skinheads did not identify the school by name.

Jim Cavanaugh, special agent in charge of the Nashville field office for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said the two men planned to shoot 88 black people and decapitate another 14. The numbers 88 and 14 are symbolic in the white supremacist community.

The men also sought to go on a national killing spree, with Obama as its final target, Cavanaugh told The Associated Press.

"They said that would be their last, final act — that they would attempt to kill Sen. Obama," Cavanaugh said. "They didn't believe they would be able to do it, but that they would get killed trying."

An Obama spokeswoman traveling with the senator in Pennsylvania had no immediate comment.

The men, Daniel Cowart, 20, of Bells, Tenn., and Paul Schlesselman 18, of West Helena, Ark., are being held without bond. Agents seized a rifle, a sawed-off shotgun and three pistols from the men when they were arrested. Authorities alleged the two men were preparing to break into a gun shop to steal more.

Attorney Joe Byrd, who has been hired to represent Cowart, did not immediately return a call seeking comment today.

Cowart and Schlesselman are charged with possessing an unregistered firearm, conspiring to steal firearms from a federally licensed gun dealer, and threatening a candidate for president.

The investigation is continuing, and more charges are possible, Cavanaugh said.