If you're confused this will help..

[KonaKing]

If you're confused this will help..

Are you having trouble understanding the upcoming tax rebate?


Let me help you - this is a great explanation of the tax rebate program recently enacted by Congress. If you don't understand how it will work maybe this explanation will help:


50,000 people went to a baseball game, but the game was rained out. A refund was then due to the ticket holders.

The team was about to mail refunds when a group of Congressional Democrats stopped them and suggested that they send out the ticket refunds based on the Democrat National Committee's interpretation of fairness.

Originally the refunds were to be paid based on the price each person had paid for the tickets. Unfortunately that meant most of the refund money would be going to the ticket holders that had purchased the most expensive tick ets. This, according to the DNC, is considered totally unfair. A decision was then made to pay out the refunds in this manner:

People in the $10 seats will get back $15. After all, they have less money to spend on tickets to begin with. Call it an 'Earned Income Ticket Credit.' Persons 'earn' it by having few skills, poor work habits, and low ambition, thus keeping them at entry-level wages.

People in the $25 seats will get back $25, because it 'seems fair.'

People in the $50 seats will get back $1, because they already make a lot of money and don't need a refund. After all, if they can afford a $50 ticket, they must not be paying enough taxes.

People in the $75 luxury box seats will each have to pay an additional $25 because it's the 'right thing to do'.

People walking past the stadium that couldn't afford to buy a ticket for the game each will get a $10 refund, even though they didn't pay anything for the tickets. They need the most help. They are either lazy or think that society owes them for just being born. Sometimes this is known as Affirmative Action.

Now do you understand?

[turbonine]

Perfect analogy. You mind if I post this on my blog?

[eks]

Now I get it!

[Moki]

Well there goes my theory of trying to teach my kids to work hard and gain an education.

[eks]

Well there goes my theory of trying to teach my kids to work hard and gain an education.

They are better off living off the government!

[Moki]

They are better off living off the government!

True, now all we need is Hillary-care to push us off the cliff into a national bankruptcy.

[eks]

True, now all we need is Hillary-care to push us off the cliff into a national bankruptcy.

I think the rich have anough money to pay for the entire Hillary-care push.

Let's tax them a little more!!!

[Timmy!]

Let's tax them a little more!!!

We could try but they'll just find more write offs so that they pay less tax than we do....

[balair]

I love a good ol' fasion tax debate. So why is it the duty of the people who worked hard all of their life to get what they have to give it all to the people who decided that working for 10 bucks an hour for the rest of their lives was better than finishing high school or college? That part always confuses me.

[ctcranor]

Of course you're assuming the rich got that way by working really hard and not just inheriting it.......any statistics out there that show how many of the super rich made their money all by themselves compared to how many had it given to them, or at least a good portion of it? It takes money to make money.

I am with most of you in thinking the tax system is completely f***ed up but I try to keep in mind that you are a product of your environment. If you are born into poverty, are provided sub-standard living conditions, schools, health care, role models and employment opportunities, your changes of working hard and contributing, in a meaningful way, back to society is far less likely than all of us here who obviously have enough cash to own a fairly expensive boat.

Asking those of us on this site that can really afford your Tige, how many of you were born into poverty and have now "made it" out? I'd bet a couple of you might say you were but I'd be suprised if any one of us really was. More that likely you were born into middle class (upper class if you own a Mastercraft, middle class understands value!), expected to do well in school, probably expected to go to college, and very much expected to work hard. In short, you had a role model(s) and were given a sense of purpose-told you would contribute and could make a difference.....

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the system is fair or right but I'll tell you what; you couldn't trade me out of my tax bracket so I could start living hard on government handouts! Giving up my boat? No friggen way man!!

[sparky216]

Of course you're assuming the rich got that way by working really hard and not just inheriting it.......any statistics out there that show how many of the super rich made their money all by themselves compared to how many had it given to them, or at least a good portion of it? It takes money to make money.

I am with most of you in thinking the tax system is completely f***ed up but I try to keep in mind that you are a product of your environment. If you are born into poverty, are provided sub-standard living conditions, schools, health care, role models and employment opportunities, your changes of working hard and contributing, in a meaningful way, back to society is far less likely than all of us here who obviously have enough cash to own a fairly expensive boat.

Asking those of us on this site that can really afford your Tige, how many of you were born into poverty and have now "made it" out? I'd bet a couple of you might say you were but I'd be suprised if any one of us really was. More that likely you were born into middle class (upper class if you own a Mastercraft, middle class understands value!), expected to do well in school, probably expected to go to college, and very much expected to work hard. In short, you had a role model(s) and were given a sense of purpose-told you would contribute and could make a difference.....

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the system is fair or right but I'll tell you what; you couldn't trade me out of my tax bracket so I could start living hard on government handouts! Giving up my boat? No friggen way man!!

Ct,
Well said and on a lot of levels I agree with you. The problem lies in the taxing policy of the government. We tax to promote or curb a behavior...ie...we tax cigarettes and alcohol because we dont want people to abuse those products, yet we give deductions to people to purchase homes, go to school, and have children because we want that type of behavior in America. Anyone can succeed in America, if you cannot do it here then there is a personal flaw that needs to be addressed. By taxing hard work and success that is a way for government to influence behavior. There are ramafications to taxation, I'm a prime example. I work crazy hours and my wife and I have struggled throughtout the years to get masters degrees, bachelors degrees, start business.....etc. I am considering working less hours or finding a new career altogether because my efforts are not going into my pocket like they should, they are being taxed (AMT anyone??). I don't mind traveling and working 70hr weeks for my family, but to see pennies on the dollar to support another family is crazy. I have no problem paying taxes, but an unjust tax system is just that, unjust. Perhaps we should consider rewarding hard work and innovation instead of taxing the hell out of it. With home prices being what they are, energy costs and health care costs, does anyone really believe that making $100k constitutes being wealthy? No, I dont but the Feds beg to differ.......

[ctcranor]

Sparky, well said and no arguments here. Although I have many points about the pro's and cons of our system, I would rather be here in the US than anywhere else in this world. I'll gladly, and I do, help those less fortunate than myself, whether via taxes or personal contributions. My real heartburn is in associating poor people in need of help in with lazy people and those living off the system. I think we should take more time to think before we speak. Would any of us here rather be poor? I’m simply saying that most of us on this site have been given changes in life and have no idea what it is like to be destitute-I know I don’t.

If contributing a few percentages of income means children can have health care or a better education, why not? You want to be pissed off about something, how about a war that is based on a lie, regardless of who told the lie. Countless lives lost, billions spent and a war that there is no way out of without complete devastation of a country. How about social security that at 41, I have to pay into that I know I’ll never see. What about tax shelters and loop holes for companies taking jobs overseas? What about any tax shelter period-I mean the only people really using shelters are the ones making serious money. My wife and I are up there in income and my accountant has yet to utter those words to us…

In short, there seem to be quite a few issues we should be pissed off about. Why pick on the poor? Are they just an easy target? We think because they are poor that equates to laziness which must mean complete manipulation of the system? I don’t know about you but I’ll bet there are far more rich and educated people screwing you out of your tax money than there are poor…..just my take though!

Oh, by the way, as I'm sure someone on here will accuse me of being a bleeding heart liberal, I'm not. I'm a registered Republican with an education and 8 years in the Army during Desert Storm. I simply realize that we need to help those less fortunate than ourselves and I question why the upper 1% controls 99%? Once again, just my take.

[sparky216]

Chris,
As with anything in life there are always two sides to any story, and you bring up some valid points (maybe the war scenario is irrevelant, but I digress). A few percentage points increase in taxes for the "rich" also has a flip side. Our family (I work outside the business, but my wife is fully engaged) has a company that has roughly 22 employees. Most make between $13-$18 dollars an hour. Over the last 4 years the business has invested in 6 new employees, new technology, 2 new doctors, and soon a brand new clinic. All this made possible by lowering the taxation on the "rich" and small business. I was talking to my neighbor a couple days ago and we were having a similar policy debate. She, like many, assume that the "rich" can afford another 5-10-or 15% lopped off their income because they can "afford it". Would someone please define "rich" to me, because I cannot seem to grasp the concept? I know our income is high, but I do not feel as secure as I thought I would. Seems like every step we make forward, we take two back, sometimes I feel that the risk just isn't worth the reward and we are seriously thinking about stopping all progress, selling and taking a job in NC where I can make a decent wage and there is no concern of loss or liability Anyway perhaps many can absorb the hike, but I can assure you that we will not be the only ones feeling it. If (when) the Bush tax cuts for the "rich" are reversed we have already determined that we will lay off 4 employees making $17 an hour. That's 4 people that could be employed that will most likely be on the system that many want to fund, to help those that cannot help themselves. I recognize that there is greed and corruption, but by in large most business owners are very honest sincere people that wish the best for the US and their employees. I think it's foolish to let the bloated government do at an inflated price what we can do for ourselves. This is not 1920, there are no sweat shops in the US, no one is getting beat for not sewing fast enough, most bosses are reasonable, dedicated, honorable citizens. As I stated earlier, I tend to want to reward risk, innovation, and success......not punish it. I'm sorry to rant, but this is a sore spot especially this year.... .

It's funny because I believe, whether liberal or conservative, that most believe fundementally the same.....it's how to get there that we all differ.


Regards,

Jeremy

[DieselPWR]

HERE IS ANOTHER GOOD EXPLANATION:

"Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it
would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day
and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner
threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said,
'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the
ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so
the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But
what about the other six men - the paying customers?How could they
divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted
that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would
each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested
that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same
amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to
compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to
the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar,
too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'

'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when
I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill,
they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money
between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our
tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most
benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being
wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might
start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.

For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible. "

[Costigan]

Holy cow. Did you guys just come up with those explanations by yourself?