Sad Day in Salt Lake City

[Moki]

Probably many of you have heard by now, but an 18 year old went on a Columbine style shooting spree in a Salt Lake City mall. 6 dead (including the shooter) and 4 seriously injured. I have been to that mall several times. It is really a shock to the community. I have always felt safe in Salt Lake and used to think that these are the things you hear about only in other places. Thankfully, there was an off-duty Ogden policeman in the mall at the time or the death toll would have been much higher. Of course I don't know the details or the motivation of this young man, I can't but help think that violent movies/programming/games had an influence in his actions.

[race fan]

I hate to here things like this. I fell bad for their familys and friends

[sparky216]

victims, who were identified as Jeffrey Walker, 52, Vanessa Quinn, 29, Kirsten Hinkley, 15, Teresa Ellis, 29, and Brad Frantz, 24.

God so young, this is why I support conceal/carry laws. What an awful tradgedy............

[chpthril]

Their families are in our thoughts and prayers

[lee]

Is that the mall were the Spaghetti Factory is?

[Moki]

Is that the mall were the Spaghetti Factory is?

Yes, you got it. It has the big tower and used to be a trolley station.

[Moki]

victims, who were identified as Jeffrey Walker, 52, Vanessa Quinn, 29, Kirsten Hinkley, 15, Teresa Ellis, 29, and Brad Frantz, 24.

this is why I support conceal/carry laws. (

I support it as well

[lee]

Yes, you got it. It has the big tower and used to be a trolley station.

Been there before once on a family vacation to SLC.

[Tequilasun]

My deepest regards to those young people's families.

I agree with you Moki, I think the violence that has become ever present in our society does influence these young kids. Even my 2 yr old can watch something like wrestling, and then start doing the moves. I feel they are desensitized to the violence. I also believe that behind each of these incidents is a weak parental structure, which is probably more to blame.

I hate that these incidents get shown on TV 24 hrs a day, no disrespect to the news worthiness of the incident, it just seems that these young people are reaching out, and the more they see this type of thing getting so much attention, the more they see it as a way to garner the same attention.

[Coach]

This is very sad. Very little is known about the shooter or any motive. There are so many factors that go into things like this. Honestly this can happen anywhere and we are seeing it happen in some of the nicest places. Many of us (I include myself here) think we live in a castle in the sky and can't be part of something like this. It is happening more and more and kids have great access to things we would never think about. We spend many hours each year on this type of training at the HS level and many of the warning signs.

[Moki]

Apparently, the kid was from Bosnia and some are speculating that being from a war torn nation had something to do with it. But the whole trench coat, multiple weapons and a cache of ammunition is a theme that we see often. I find it interesting that there is a law suit that will require any film that portraying smoking as sophisticated or cool will automatically receive an "R" rating. Yet, violence is allowed without the batting of an eye. But, oh yeah, according to Hollywood, movies do not influence people or society.

Coach,
I have a lot of respect for teachers today, you have way more challenges to face than any of the teachers when I was growing up.

[raythompson]

I support it as well

You may support it but I doubt it would have done much good.

Unless you are trained to use the weapon as deadly force, ie shooting another human, it is not easy to do. You will in all probability not hit the person you are targeting and now you have just made yourself a target.

If you should happen to succeed and were to kill a person you would have to live with that the rest of your life. You will also get sued for wrongful death and have huge legal bills. Your life will change forever.

I was involved in Viet Nam. I was trained to kill with a weapon and it still did not come easy. I was legally authorized, encouraged, to kill other humans with the blessing of the government. Still it was never easy. Seeing a head explode, a chest exit the back of the body, stomachs ripped apart, take your pick. Hollywood does not adequately demonstrate the horror of such an event.

So if you want to carry a concealed weapon, if you want to attempt to kill someone, if you think you could even succeed, then more power to you. I have no problem with concealed weapons. What I have a problem with is people thinking they could have saved the day when in all probability they would have made it worse and probably lost their own life. You would have six or eight shells in your weapon and I seriously doubt that any one of those shells would have made their target.

The person that is doing the killing is not mentally stable, you are. Pulling that trigger to take another life is much harder than anyone could ever imagine which is especially true when under pressure.

[lee]

I was involved in Viet Nam.

.

Thank you for your service to our country.

[sparky216]

You may support it but I doubt it would have done much good.

Unless you are trained to use the weapon as deadly force, ie shooting another human, it is not easy to do. You will in all probability not hit the person you are targeting and now you have just made yourself a target.

If you should happen to succeed and were to kill a person you would have to live with that the rest of your life. You will also get sued for wrongful death and have huge legal bills. Your life will change forever.

I was involved in Viet Nam. I was trained to kill with a weapon and it still did not come easy. I was legally authorized, encouraged, to kill other humans with the blessing of the government. Still it was never easy. Seeing a head explode, a chest exit the back of the body, stomachs ripped apart, take your pick. Hollywood does not adequately demonstrate the horror of such an event.

So if you want to carry a concealed weapon, if you want to attempt to kill someone, if you think you could even succeed, then more power to you. I have no problem with concealed weapons. What I have a problem with is people thinking they could have saved the day when in all probability they would have made it worse and probably lost their own life. You would have six or eight shells in your weapon and I seriously doubt that any one of those shells would have made their target.

The person that is doing the killing is not mentally stable, you are. Pulling that trigger to take another life is much harder than anyone could ever imagine which is especially true when under pressure.

I concur, that is why obtaining a conceal/carry permit is quite the challenge. You need to prove that you are a marksman and psychologically stable to carry it.
I was in the Persian Gulf on VBSS teams (Visit Board Search and Seizure) and we used to train with the Coast Guard drug opps teams. We boarded oil tankers for the UN in search of contraband and illegal oil. I'm well aware that hand guns are not only difficult to use but nearly ineffective in close quarters. The odds of a layman weekend shooter hitting the subject at 20+ yards out with a handgun is slim to nil, but what happened in Utah is the off duty officer cornered the attacker in a shootout and saved so many lives. What if there were 5 other people in that mall with handguns, less would of died. I hear you on the Rambo complex, many think that firing a handgun is easy, or that killing someone is easy, I agree it's not a simple as one would think. I do think that these animals that like to shoot people would maybe reconsider there targets if they knew that the playing field would be a bit more level....ie there was a good possibility that someone would shoot back. Pulling the trigger on a innocent human.....hard Pulling the trigger on someone shooting at me.....I really have to respectfully disagree with you and say that is a no brainer.

[yllw20]

I agree it is sad for all families involved. The first thing I thought of was the people from utah on this site. I have never met any of you, but you were the only people I could relate to that area. I am glad that you are all safe, to my knowledge.

Concealed carry...we have it here. I dont. I dont want a gun around the housw due to young children.

I was raised in a boating family and we never were around guns really as a kids.

I think it can be a partial deterant knowing that someone else could be packing. But, in this case I think the kid went in knowing he was coming out and when you have that case at hand, concealed carry isnt a deterant.