Towing? Chevy 2500HD Diesel/Gas

[Dandy]

Hi All,
Yes - yet another towing/vehicle question. I am looking for some real life feedback.

So - let me start with my "story" and why I am going to be asking about this. I had a 2010 Ford Flex as my daily driver, loved the car. We have a 2005 Chev 1500HD (6.0 w/ 4 speed) at work and used it for towing the boat. Well, I got a wild hair and determined that I really should have a daily driver that can also tow the boat, so I traded off the Flex and got a 2013 Sequoia - then traded the Z1 for a heavier boat. The Sequoia does alright with our boat (+/- 8500 lbs on trailer) but I don't enjoy it for a daily driver, and it is underrated for our current boat. I am now going to trade off the Sequoia and get back into a Flex and we are planning on picking up a 2500HD at work that I will be able to use.

The 1500HD is in great shape, but the 6.0 is loud with the 4 speed as it revs high and with the soft front and firmer rear suspension, it has a tendency to have a lot of rear hop. I have never been totally in love with this truck. I am fine with the ride of a truck, but it either needs to be smooth - smooth front to rear or bump - bump. The 1500HD is smooth - bump. Feedback on ride handling with a 2500HD when towing will also be appreciated. Also thinking about adding airbags to the rear to help keep a level ride or with the 3/4 ton is this not an issue?

I hear/see a lot of debate over Gas Vs. Diesel. My concern is that being in MN, it gets quite cold in the winter. We generally only put about 6-7K miles on our work truck a year, however we keep the work vehicles for longer times. For towing, I really believe that Diesel will be the way to go and I test drove a 2011 2500HD with the DMax yesterday and I have to admit, the modern Diesels are way improved over the old school motors - much smoother and quieter. Anyone have real world comparisons with both the Dmax and 6.0 gassers? Any real world experience with a diesel with minimal use and in a cold climate.

Our work truck generally gets used primarily for towing, plowing (just or own shop lot) and parts running. Am I going to get myself in trouble with a diesel for this minimal use application?

Thanks in advance for all of the feedback and opinions that will be given.

[Surf406]

Have had both and I'm in cold climate as well, I've owned 6 diesel pickups and loved everyone of them the diesel is gonna giv u a lot more torque for pulling and in the long run the better re-sale value.
I really am not a fan of gasers and don't have much good to say bout them either but if ur looking for longevity and power, go with the diesel hands down. The diesel fuel in ur area may be more than gas but I for one don't ever look at fuel economy when I'm pulling my boat or fifth wheel. The way I look at it is: ur going anyway to have fun who cares about fuel economy when ur pulling anyway. If u can't afford to put the fuel in it u should prob just stay home :-)
My vote is DIESEL all day long. You'll be happy when u can pass someone going uphill with ur boat vs. being passed.

[JLG]

I own a 2011 2500 dmax and have around 50k mi on it and still love how it rides and tows. I have added a simple level kit to it and run 33" nitto tires that run quiet and smooth just like the day it came out of the factory. I have thought about air bags as it sags a bit with the boat and even more with the camper, but nothing to major. I haven't had any issues with it other than a reprogram of the def system as the epa required it to burn more def was all. I tow my 13000lb camper at 80mph or my Z3 at 80 on interstate and it only downshifts on big hills or windy days. I would guess on a calm day I get around 10-12mpg towing 80 and windy will drop to 8-10 range but who cares about the fuel mileage! I care about time and getting there safely without listening to the engine or may ars hurting from the ride.

I had an 07 1500 with the 5.3 and hated every minute of owning it. I also tow our boat with our 6.2L escalade and the thing does amazing for a gas that is. The 6.0L would be the smallest engine I'd want for that 23ft boat if towing over say 30mi unless you don't mind towing at 65 and the boat handling the truck that is. My work vans I have switched over from Duramaxes to the 6.0L and they run down the road around 9000-10000lbs while getting 10-11mpg and I have over 100K on em with very little issues. The transmission on the 6.0L that's another story as I've replaced 2 of them at 140K miles. I don't tow with theses 6.0L vans but they are about the same weight you will have and they are 10ft tall so take on a lot more wind than a truck. Main reason I've switched over is the overall cost of the diesel and the added cost of maintenance a diesel carries.

Cold weather wise if the diesel is left out then you will have to add power service or similar treatment to your fuel or you will be left stranded. Mine is garaged at night and left outside during the day and have never had an issue and I don't treat my tank during winter, but have seen many in our area that get left out at night in the shop gelled up. Fuel treatment and def fluid is pricey but no more miles than you drive it won't be an issue. I think my dmax is just as comfortable if not more on long trips than our escalade if that gives you an idea.

Your last question about minimal use- with these newer diesels and the def fluid system you won't want to idle them a lot as it build up in the EGR system and you will have issues, costly issues! Run the piss out of them and maintain them every 5000mi and you won't regret buying the dmax. I wouldn't ever try to tow our boat more than 150mi away without my dmax!

[dilpickle]

One more vote for the diesel. I maintain a fleet of around 400 pickups in climate similar, if not identical to yours (we routinely see -30F in the winter). One thing I look at when retiring these units is the overall cost of maintenance over the life of each unit. The gas units typically average 4-8 cents/mile to operate, the Chevy diesels end up around 8-10 cents/mile. Roughly 1-2 cents/miles is just in tires, all that torque wears them out a little quicker. Looking at purely fuel costs-including DEF, you spend less per mile on a diesel, especially towing.

I have a '14 2500HD Duramax, my wife has an '11 Tahoe LTZ. Most road trips, we take the truck because of how smooth & quiet it is. It gets even better when you put weight behind it. I typically tow 6-10,000 lbs, the only difference I notice is the amount of fuel used-the weight makes very little difference on performance. As long as you are working the truck when you use it, you should not have any problem from your occasional usage-mine only sees about 8,000 miles/year. The short trips where the engine doesn't get up to temp are the hardest on them.

If you are looking at the used market, I highly recommend searching for an LML (2011-up) as the regen system works much better, the fuel economy is better & more powerful (397hp, 765 ft-lb.) than the previous version. After towing with a diesel, most people will never go back-i know I sure won't.

[jmhatchett]

I am a diesel owner as well and I personally wont tow without a diesel, we are a ford family and have 4 powerstrokes... dads, mine, and two brothers that each have one. My step dad has a diesel denali (super nice truck). I live in a much different climate where we see 110+ degree summers and its hard work on a gas engine when its that temperature and you are working an engine super hard.

I ran numbers on owning a diesel vs a gas truck a while back and prices have changed, but mile-for-mile they do even out at cost of ownership (sometimes). The mileage of a gas truck towning your boat might get 10mpg... a new diesel with all of the EPA mandated emissions equipment wont get great mileage like many people like to claim. My dads 2015 diesel gets 12-13 towing a gooseneck that weighs about what your boat does when empty (but the engine isnt even breaking a sweat, set the cruise and it never has a problem). The maintenance on a diesel is very very important as these diesels are getting more and more complicated in the motor department. The cost of ownership and driving of a diesel truck is higher than gas (and the new gas engines and transmissions will allow for e better towing experience than your previous 6.0 and 4-speed), it takes over 60,000 miles of driving a diesel before the cost of ownership equals that of a gasser. The diesel engine upgrade alone is $8,000. It takes 60,000+ miles before you start to see any of that return as compared to the gas engine purchase. If you were going to drive and tow a ton I would recommend a diesel, but only 6-7K per year I would lean towards a nice gas 2500.

[JohnnieMo]

I think it depends a lot on what else you want to do with the truck. My truck is a daily driver for the most part, so a huge diesel just doesn't make sense in rush hour traffic. I opted to add horsepower to the gas engine. That way I can still tow with it, and I can still drive to work with it. You can add a lot of horsepower for $8000.

I would try towing with a 6.2L. The new batch of Chevy V8's that came out in 2015 are a marked improvement over the earlier models. I think they are running around 450HP in that 6.2L. You'll need all of that for that G23 though.

If this truck is mostly for towing and family trips - a diesel... no question. To me, I really like the diesel engine, but it is the 7000lb truck that comes with it that I don't like as much. I can't wait for Chevy to come out with a nice 4.5L diesel 1500.

[dilpickle]

I am a diesel owner as well and I personally wont tow without a diesel, we are a ford family and have 4 powerstrokes... dads, mine, and two brothers that each have one. My step dad has a diesel denali (super nice truck). I live in a much different climate where we see 110+ degree summers and its hard work on a gas engine when its that temperature and you are working an engine super hard.

I ran numbers on owning a diesel vs a gas truck a while back and prices have changed, but mile-for-mile they do even out at cost of ownership (sometimes). The mileage of a gas truck towning your boat might get 10mpg... a new diesel with all of the EPA mandated emissions equipment wont get great mileage like many people like to claim. My dads 2015 diesel gets 12-13 towing a gooseneck that weighs about what your boat does when empty (but the engine isnt even breaking a sweat, set the cruise and it never has a problem). The maintenance on a diesel is very very important as these diesels are getting more and more complicated in the motor department. The cost of ownership and driving of a diesel truck is higher than gas (and the new gas engines and transmissions will allow for e better towing experience than your previous 6.0 and 4-speed), it takes over 60,000 miles of driving a diesel before the cost of ownership equals that of a gasser. The diesel engine upgrade alone is $8,000. It takes 60,000+ miles before you start to see any of that return as compared to the gas engine purchase. If you were going to drive and tow a ton I would recommend a diesel, but only 6-7K per year I would lean towards a nice gas 2500.

Not to start a pissing contest, but of those 400 pickups I manage, roughly 2/3 of them are Ford. The 6.4L Power stroke over its life averages cost of 14-30 cents/mile, we are just starting to mile out the 6.7 PS & so far they are much better (down to 11-17 cents/mile) than the 6.4, but still not as economical as the GM (8-10 cents/mile).

The newer gasoline DI engines will tow much better than their predecessors, but at the expense of fuel economy. They are also not available in the 2500's yet, 6.0 gas is still SFI. In the 2500, we typically see mileage of 10 city/13 highway unloaded. Those numbers drop to 8 city/10 highway when pulling 4-5,000 lbs. My Duramax runs around 15 city/20 highway unloaded, 13 city/16 highway pulling my 7,000 lb camper.

[jmhatchett]

Not to start a pissing contest, but of those 400 pickups I manage, roughly 2/3 of them are Ford. The 6.4L Power stroke over its life averages cost of 14-30 cents/mile, we are just starting to mile out the 6.7 PS & so far they are much better (down to 11-17 cents/mile) than the 6.4, but still not as economical as the GM (8-10 cents/mile).

The newer gasoline DI engines will tow much better than their predecessors, but at the expense of fuel economy. They are also not available in the 2500's yet, 6.0 gas is still SFI. In the 2500, we typically see mileage of 10 city/13 highway unloaded. Those numbers drop to 8 city/10 highway when pulling 4-5,000 lbs. My Duramax runs around 15 city/20 highway unloaded, 13 city/16 highway pulling my 7,000 lb camper.

I understand, no pissing match here either. Down here in Texas diesel=life... my brothers both work in the oilfield each company they work for almost exclusively run 6.7 Fords and we raise livestock and tow tons like i said i prefer the diesel. My main point was that at $8000 initial investment if you dont use the diesel then you may never see the return on investment or it might have paid for itself over initially choosing a gasser after 60,000+ miles.

It may not be justifiable to spend the extra $8000 up front just to have a diesel. He was just asking about how we thought a nice new gas truck could handle it and I think it would be much better than what he has currently. There is no doubt the diesel is the king of towing, but some applications dont require a diesel. If you are ready to handle the maintenance of a new diesel then they are the best.

[Dandy]

Hey all. First, I want to thank you all for all of the details, information and opinion. Getting information as detailed as the cost per mile of ownership was more than I was expecting.

Jmo- I believe the 6.2L is only available in the GMC Denali trucks for 2015. That aside, as quick as I can spend $$$ a new truck is just not in the budget, nor justifiable for the minimal miles driven each year.

I have learned that finding a 3/4 or 1 ton truck in an extended cab used is not very easy as most have moved to full crew cabs.

I did find what I felt to be a pretty great deal on a 2011 Chev 2500HD with the DMax Diesel. We pulled the trigger on it. I have always heard so many positives about the power/torque of a diesel from people that tow and having had a truck with the 6.0 felt it would be a great improvement. Oddly enough the price in the used market between Gas and Diesel was not that much different. For our use, I am sure the diesel is not needed, but I look forward to hooking up the boat and seeing what this bad boy is capable of. On a side note, I cannot believe how much nicer the 2011 rides vs. the 2005 1500HD and the noise level in the cab is noticeable quieter which surprised me being a diesel.

Below are a couple of photos in all of its glory.
DSC01946.jpg

DSC01947.jpg

[JohnZ3]

You'll never go back to a gasser for towing. Nice truck.

It'll pull your G23 without a problem. I've used my wife's 6.2L Caddy to tow our Z3 and it does the job, but it's still no comparison to my F350. Braking ability, power, and gas mileage are all much better with the diesel truck.

[JohnnieMo]

Nice. Buying used just makes SOOO much sense. Very interesting how the prices even out between diesel and gas.

[Dandy]

Nice. Buying used just makes SOOO much sense. Very interesting how the prices even out between diesel and gas.

In out market it is not quite even. All things being equal (as much as it can be in a used vehicle market) I would say the diesel is +/- $2500 more than the 6.0 gasser. Doesn't seem too bad as it is about a $8K upgrade new.

[WYTige?]

You'll never go back to a gasser for towing. Nice truck.

It'll pull your G23 without a problem. I've used my wife's 6.2L Caddy to tow our Z3 and it does the job, but it's still no comparison to my F350. Braking ability, power, and gas mileage are all much better with the diesel truck.

Yep, you'll never go back. Love my Cummins 6.7.

[carcrz]

I have a 2012 GMC 2500 Denali HD with 132000 miles on it now. I drive so many highway miles that they add up quickly. If I had a gasser I'd wear it out in no time unfortunately. When we're towing the boat or camper I have a tendency to forget it's even back there since it just cruises right along. If you're budgets there, go with the diesel.

[WYTige?]

BTW, great looking truck and that Duramax is the real deal!