Im lost without the PW thread!!!!

[philwsailz]

Oh, it has plenty of bass. I just discovered it by accident the other night and did sound fuller at low volume.

Loudness at low volume takes advantage of the way our ear-brain system workes. We can refernce the Fletcher-Munson curves as a basis for the integration of the LOUDNESS contour control in audio electronics.

Fletcher and Munson were able to quantify the fact that at low volumes are ear-brain mechanism is more sensitive to midrange frequencies. As volume gets higher out ability to make out low and high sounds changes. In effect, we have a built-in EQ in our ear-brain mechanism that changes with volume.


The problem is this: The LOUDNESS contour circuit is designed for use at low level, but many people leave it on and forget it when they play their stereo at high volume. The electronics manufacturers defaulted to a simple on-off switch, but in truth the application of LOUDNESS should be applied differently at different listning levels. The only piece of electronics I ever saw that got it right was a very high-end Yamaha preamplifier we had in a listening lab at a former employer. Ironically, (and not intuitively) you set the volume control to some arbitrary level, and then the LOUDNESS control was used to set the volume you wanted to listen at. In this manner, the LOUDNESS contour was applied fully at lower levels, and as the level increased the efect diminished...

You mention that it sounded fuller at low level, and this is exactly how the LOUDNESS control should be used. For max output from your stereo system though, turn LOUDNESS off at high level, as it is literally just another EQ setting boosting bass and treble...

[Iwndr]

Ah, early morning on my day off...


So $10k more for an RZR or just buy an R20 and spend $7k more? Ah, I see exactly why we should buy the R20 now, save that $3k!

save that 3k and complain about being misinformed

[Iwndr]

Loudness at low volume takes advantage of the way our ear-brain system workes. We can refernce the Fletcher-Munson curves as a basis for the integration of the LOUDNESS contour control in audio electronics.

Fletcher and Munson were able to quantify the fact that at low volumes are ear-brain mechanism is more sensitive to midrange frequencies. As volume gets higher out ability to make out low and high sounds changes. In effect, we have a built-in EQ in our ear-brain mechanism that changes with volume.


The problem is this: The LOUDNESS contour circuit is designed for use at low level, but many people leave it on and forget it when they play their stereo at high volume. The electronics manufacturers defaulted to a simple on-off switch, but in truth the application of LOUDNESS should be applied differently at different listning levels. The only piece of electronics I ever saw that got it right was a very high-end Yamaha preamplifier we had in a listening lab at a former employer. Ironically, (and not intuitively) you set the volume control to some arbitrary level, and then the LOUDNESS control was used to set the volume you wanted to listen at. In this manner, the LOUDNESS contour was applied fully at lower levels, and as the level increased the efect diminished...

You mention that it sounded fuller at low level, and this is exactly how the LOUDNESS control should be used. For max output from your stereo system though, turn LOUDNESS off at high level, as it is literally just another EQ setting boosting bass and treble...

[skippabcool]

Okay, cool. Bass boost at zero is right. FOr the Pro60's, the crossover set to 100 - 150 is typical. TYOur gain is just WAY too high, even for a Clarion head unit....

I have one OEM that uses Clarion, and I recall wanting to see the gains set to 10-o-clock or so to get the amp to unity gain with all tone controls set flat, fadr central, bass boost, off etc....

I will adjust them. What does the cross over change from 70 to 100 or 150?

I did have to add the "Y"'s and went with heavier duty ones, is that necessary or would the cheap ones work as well?

[thtrog]

Loudness at low volume takes advantage of the way our ear-brain system workes. We can refernce the Fletcher-Munson curves as a basis for the integration of the LOUDNESS contour control in audio electronics.

Fletcher and Munson were able to quantify the fact that at low volumes are ear-brain mechanism is more sensitive to midrange frequencies. As volume gets higher out ability to make out low and high sounds changes. In effect, we have a built-in EQ in our ear-brain mechanism that changes with volume.


The problem is this: The LOUDNESS contour circuit is designed for use at low level, but many people leave it on and forget it when they play their stereo at high volume. The electronics manufacturers defaulted to a simple on-off switch, but in truth the application of LOUDNESS should be applied differently at different listning levels. The only piece of electronics I ever saw that got it right was a very high-end Yamaha preamplifier we had in a listening lab at a former employer. Ironically, (and not intuitively) you set the volume control to some arbitrary level, and then the LOUDNESS control was used to set the volume you wanted to listen at. In this manner, the LOUDNESS contour was applied fully at lower levels, and as the level increased the efect diminished...

You mention that it sounded fuller at low level, and this is exactly how the LOUDNESS control should be used. For max output from your stereo system though, turn LOUDNESS off at high level, as it is literally just another EQ setting boosting bass and treble...

I believe you, it's a hidden function and defaults off when you cycle the HU. It was nice at the time and sure my neighbors appreciated it.

[skippabcool]

save that 3k and complain about being misinformed

lol

[thtrog]

Have a good day hoes, I may check in mobile later.

[philwsailz]

Hey speaking of Amp gains, etc.

I removed the Arc Audio EQ I had for a HU and put in a Wetsound WS-420. This mic thing is awesome. I've already been told I'm a nuisance with it though

But the stereo doesn't sound so loud anymore, maybe I need to adjust the gains on the amps? Does that make sense with a new EQ? Keep in mind, the EQ IS my headunit.

Do you have the tone controls turned up or down ecessively? A typical consumer will go throw a big smiley-face EQ onto their EQ, boosting lows and highs while cutting mids. The result is a stereo that sounds fuller, (although artificially) but doesnt play as loud. The lower volume is due to the fact that the amp(s) are busy making low and high sounds louder than they were intended, so the amps run out of power sooner.

You might need to adjust gains; typically you do when you swap out source units, as their voltage output will be different, but I would look wider to see if the fancy new EQ is lulling you into thinking you are an audio engineer... Minimal EQ is alweays best....

On the subject of EQ, setting them is important. Many people go and boost stuff but boosting is usually bad. Think about this: The typical consumer will go and make a smiley face by boosting the lows and highs. This requires power and voltage and takes out headroom. If you really like the smiley face and I can't talk you out of it, know that you can CUT in the midrange and get the same shape, without going and boosting anything. The modified EQ shape is the same, but rather than eating up amp power making extra bass and treble, you are conserving power in the midrange by reducing it.... you gain head room instead of losing it... Grasping that?

On an EQ, it is important to realize that when you boost something you really are reacting to something else being too loud. If you can consciously identify the part you think is too loud, you can cut it with better results when compared to boosting other frequencies, and you can ususally cut to the same sonic effect with fewer controls......

[skippabcool]

Thanks for the help Phil.

How is your wife doing?

[philwsailz]

Thanks for the help Phil.

How is your wife doing?

She's good, thanks for asking!

Too funny, hormones and minor irritability aside, there is not a whole lot of telling that she is pregnant, except for the basketball on the front of her. She has not gained much weight, has not "swelled" any... Still slender-faced and skinny; you can even tell walking behind her...

It is going real good, and he is a strong little kicker and puncher...

[Iwndr]

I'm pretty sure you will have to come up and tune mine Phil, I'm not used to getting such detailed instructions

[Iwndr]

I got 94000 and did not even see it coming

[Fiveflat]

Thanks for that detailed explanation Phil! You rock!

Only reason I have an EQ to begin with is because I wanted that Microphone and I don't want a typical radio headunit since I use my iPhone.

I have all the tones pretty much set at zero or middle of the knob if that is zero. sound is great just doesn't get as loud as with my ARC audio EQ.

[Timmy!]

The mic is cool on the 420 but so is the fact that you can actually add some mids to your sound! My buddy's JL 7.7" speakers really woke up with the addition of the 420, HUGE difference just by being able to tone down the bass and treble and get the midrange up.

[robert theisen]

RT must really be hurt if he didn't check in this morning. Or he might be busy finding more friends on FB.

A little sore,up to 964 on fb and celebrating with Shirley!