ASR vs Z3 Tongue weight

[Goalie30dad]

Have a 2013 Z3. We are looking at the ASR and are going to demo one today. I was wondering if anyone out there had any idea of the tongue weight of an ASR vs the Z3. I have no idea on either. I have a 2013 F150 EccoBoost and it seems to do fine with the Z3 - I have a 10k hitch and an 8k ball. I do not have the heavy tow package.

Any info would be appreciated.

[NICKYPOO]

Ideally the tongue weight should be 7-10% of the gvw. So boat, trailer and gear fully loaded. Your trailer should also be level as well as your truck. I seriously doubt a fully loaded Z3 with the proper tongue weight isn't making a stock 1500 truck sag in the back. That's dangerous to you and everyone else on the road. At the very least, that 1500 should have airbags in the rear suspension. Really though, it should be sold and replaced with something built to handle the weight. If you only have to tow it down the block to the ramp, that's one thing. If you take it on the highway at all, it's irresponsible.

The best thing to do is to take the whole setup down to a proper trailer shop and have the boat weighed, have the tongue weight weighed and have the entire setup weighed. Then you can figure out if you are near or above the trucks capabilities. If you are anywhere near capacity, you don't have enough truck. Seeing a boat that size behind a little dinky truck like that really makes my skin crawl. Yes, it will tow it. It will not however handle the load nor stop it anywhere near as well as a properly set up 2500 or 3500 with a tow package. Tow packages usually include beefier rear springs, bigger brakes and an upgraded tranny or at least a tranny cooler.

I might sound a little stern on this one but, if another uninformed irresponsible trailer owner/operator kills another one my friends, well, let's just say I owe it to my friend to speak up. It's not your property I give a **** about, it's the in innocent people on the roads lives that you're taking into your hands. 100k boat and and 25k truck? I don't get that.

I know you Ecoboosters will defend your trucks to the end but, just running the numbers, a z3 is going to put an ecoboost with 75-80% of capacity. Easily. Probably closer to 90% realistically. That's not good in my book. Your wondering if an ASR will be ok? I say no. No F'n way. Buy a truck first.

[rensink]

Here is a pretty good read on the tongue weight: http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...ribution-Hitch
The tongue weight when it comes to boats is way different than that of a travel trailer...

[Goalie30dad]

Ideally the tongue weight should be 7-10% of the gvw. So boat, trailer and gear fully loaded. Your trailer should also be level as well as your truck. I seriously doubt a fully loaded Z3 with the proper tongue weight isn't making a stock 1500 truck sag in the back. That's dangerous to you and everyone else on the road. At the very least, that 1500 should have airbags in the rear suspension. Really though, it should be sold and replaced with something built to handle the weight. If you only have to tow it down the block to the ramp, that's one thing. If you take it on the highway at all, it's irresponsible.

The best thing to do is to take the whole setup down to a proper trailer shop and have the boat weighed, have the tongue weight weighed and have the entire setup weighed. Then you can figure out if you are near or above the trucks capabilities. If you are anywhere near capacity, you don't have enough truck. Seeing a boat that size behind a little dinky truck like that really makes my skin crawl. Yes, it will tow it. It will not however handle the load nor stop it anywhere near as well as a properly set up 2500 or 3500 with a tow package. Tow packages usually include beefier rear springs, bigger brakes and an upgraded tranny or at least a tranny cooler.

I might sound a little stern on this one but, if another uninformed irresponsible trailer owner/operator kills another one my friends, well, let's just say I owe it to my friend to speak up. It's not your property I give a **** about, it's the in innocent people on the roads lives that you're taking into your hands. 100k boat and and 25k truck? I don't get that.

I know you Ecoboosters will defend your trucks to the end but, just running the numbers, a z3 is going to put an ecoboost with 75-80% of capacity. Easily. Probably closer to 90% realistically. That's not good in my book. Your wondering if an ASR will be ok? I say no. No F'n way. Buy a truck first.

Thanks for the *** chewin Nick!! Sorry about your friend - I am being responsible just asking a question to be informed. I am doing my homework first and dont' do any long range hauling.

[JohnZ3]

ASR is probably only 100 lbs more tongue weight. It's not quite 1000 lbs heavier, so 10% of that is 100 lbs.

On the trailer the ASR could be about 8000 lbs. Maybe 8500 tops. The new half tons can handle that, especially shorter hauls.
I had the 2012 F150 Ecoboost and it pulled the Z3 fine. Even on long 200 mile trips. Mine had the heavy duty tow package though.
I put electric brakes on my trailer and would recommend doing that if you get the ASR. It helps a lot.

A bigger diesel truck would be better obviously, but not necessary.
IMO, sometimes a more powerful truck can lead to a more dangerous situation if an unexperienced driver is towing something.
The extra power allows them to go too fast.

[chpthril]

The center of gravity will have a HUGE effect on tongue weight, more so than the actual boat's weight. How the trailer manufacture sets the trailer/boat up, will determine the center of gravity. I tow different boats and trailers on a regular basis. I have towed boats that were smaller/lighter then my 22Ve, but had more tongue weight.

[Dandy]

ASR is probably only 100 lbs more tongue weight. It's not quite 1000 lbs heavier, so 10% of that is 100 lbs.

On the trailer the ASR could be about 8000 lbs. Maybe 8500 tops. The new half tons can handle that, especially shorter hauls.
I had the 2012 F150 Ecoboost and it pulled the Z3 fine. Even on long 200 mile trips. Mine had the heavy duty tow package though.
I put electric brakes on my trailer and would recommend doing that if you get the ASR. It helps a lot.

A bigger diesel truck would be better obviously, but not necessary.
IMO, sometimes a more powerful truck can lead to a more dangerous situation if an unexperienced driver is towing something.
The extra power allows them to go too fast.

Can you share what you did to add electric brakes to your trailer? I would love to upgrade from surge brakes to electric over hydraulic with a controller. Then I could set the brakes on the trailer to "slow" the vehicle

[JohnZ3]

Dandy,

I took my trailer to a local trailer shop. I mentioned the electric over hydraulic brakes and they said "no way". Easier, cheaper, less maintenance to do straight electric.
Anyway, it cost about $1000 to do both axles.

[Ewok]

Nick, it might be painful but can you share any details about the irresponsible truck driver that killed your friend? I honestly see more irresponsible drivers pulling little boats with huge diesel trucks, the guys who say "I don't even feel the boat back there." I have observed several of those type of drivers cutting people off on the highway, speeding well beyond the rated speed of the trailer tires, cutting corners and jumping curbs with the trailer because they litterally forget there is a trailer back there. IMO, diesel trucks are a crutch for poor driving ability with a load, you just can't and shouldn't drive like normal with a trailer behind the vehicle, no matter what. It kills me to see guys brag about cruising down the hwy at 75-85 with their boats in tow, that's irresponsibility in my book.

My Sequoia is rated to tow 7,200 by the new standard, not the old standard that smart guys gave a safety margin for. My boat on trailer weighs 6,400 so I have 800 lbs I'm the Sequoia for people and cargo. Supposedly the new 2015 Fords will use the same towing standard, so we shall see how all the pickups will stack up.

As far as this thread goes, the EcoBoost should tow a Z3 safely if it's driven in a safe manor. The ASR would be a challenge for the ford, I'd have to weigh everything and wait for the new tow ratings to come out to see what it's really capable of. It's going to sit higher on the trailer so that'll be more wind resistance too, more work for the truck. Using today's tow ratings, I would probably recommend a 3/4 ton or full ton pickup for the ASR.

[Ewok]

Dandy,

I took my trailer to a local trailer shop. I mentioned the electric over hydraulic brakes and they said "no way". Easier, cheaper, less maintenance to do straight electric.
Anyway, it cost about $1000 to do both axles.

Can electric brakes be dipped underwater?

[Dandy]

@JohnZ3 I am wondering the same as Ewok. I would be more than happy to spend $1-2K to get brakes on our boat trailer that I can use a brake controller in my TV to adjust. I am not sure why the factories do not do this because it is a much safer way to tow in my opinion. When I tow our enclosed trailer, I actually set up the brake controller to brake the trailer just a little heavier than the TV this helps save the brakes on the truck and tends to slow in a very straight line since the trailer doesn't have to push against the truck to activate the brakes. Any information at all about this would be greatly appreciated by me and I am sure many others.

[Timmy!]

According to Nick we are supposed to believe that even though the F150 Ecoboost's minimum max towing is 9,600 lbs that an ASR would be too much for it even though it has a 1,000lb to 1,500 lb buffer? You would probably be fine and if an accident happened, you are still within the trucks limits per the mfr's specifications for maximum towing. Sorry to hear about your friend, Nick, but not everyone is an irresponsible driver and if a truck can't handle up to it's max specs, why even have the max specs?

[Z3CO23]

When I first started towing I was always taught to generally follow the 80% rule. I have always been diligent with making sure my trailer is level while towing, checking tire pressure etc.

My tow rig is a Tundra Crew Max with 5.7, SAE rated at 10,000 pounds max towing.

My 11 RZR's factory number is 3400lbs (I will preface this number with saying that I couldn't find if that weight includes the alpha z or not but I'm going to assume it does). Research on my trailer gives me about 1200lbs on my double axle, gas full about 300, and Ill give a 500lbs addition for amsp, speakers, gear. This puts my RZR at roughly 5400-5500 lbs total. So, I'm about 55% with my RZR

I recently towed from Denver to LOTO, about 1700 miles and I got 11.2 mpg doing 65-70mph the whole way. I never tow faster than 70 regardless. I have this rule because I think it's unsafe to do more at any load rating. I have a buddy who towes his 30 foot baja behind a 1 ton and consistently has blow outs. Why? He always yanks that thing at 80-85mph, and he wonders why he goes through tires.

I looked up the z3 and it has a factory weight of 4650 lbs, trailer 1200-1500 lbs, gas 400lbs and misc stereo and gear of 500lbs. Thats 6750 to 7050lbs approximate. That would be 70% for my Tundra. I would be comfortable towing the Z3 with my Tundra. Would I like a 3/4 ton to do it, yes, but I think it's safe and responsible to tow a z3 with my truck. I say this with the caveat that the farthest body of water that I use is about an hour away on the interstate.

ASR 5560lbs, 1500lbs trailer, gas 500, stereo and gear 500. So total would be right at the 8000lbs mark. If the boat owner just towed the boat around town, close then I'd say sure, use your 1/2 ton. I would not use a 1/2 ton as a long distance tow vehicle for the ASR. I know the ASR is only 1000 pounds more (approximate) than the z3 but the boat is so much bigger, taller etc.

Just my .02. Stopping would be my issue I guess. Curb weight of my Tundra is 5400.

[Dandy]

My 11 RZR's factory number is 3400lbs (I will preface this number with saying that I couldn't find if that weight includes the alpha z or not but I'm going to assume it does).

What I was told is that Tige's published weights are base dry weights and I do remember ordering our Z1 that technically the Alpha Z tower is an option in the build list. Not sure on the weight of the tower.

[JohnZ3]

@JohnZ3 I am wondering the same as Ewok. I would be more than happy to spend $1-2K to get brakes on our boat trailer that I can use a brake controller in my TV to adjust. I am not sure why the factories do not do this because it is a much safer way to tow in my opinion. When I tow our enclosed trailer, I actually set up the brake controller to brake the trailer just a little heavier than the TV this helps save the brakes on the truck and tends to slow in a very straight line since the trailer doesn't have to push against the truck to activate the brakes. Any information at all about this would be greatly appreciated by me and I am sure many others.

Some people will pull the brake plug from the truck before launching and retrieving to avoid submerging the connection.

I never have done this, although I never get deep enough in the water to submerge the brake plug connection on the truck.
For me that would be having my rear bumper under water.

This is my fourth boat with electric brakes (first one I've had to switch over) and never had an issue with the system getting wet.

Another benefit over surge brakes is the downhill one. Going down a steep hill will burn surge brakes up. They engage when you brake the truck and won't disengage until you speed the truck up enough to pull the trailer tongue back out.