Iroko Teak Swim Platform On Early 07 20V

[dogbert]

BTW, virtually every reference I've seen with respect to the use of Iroko in marine applications (e.g., planking, keels, rudders, swim platforms, etc.) refers to it as African Teak. It's also interesting that it's used in a variety of in the water applications on some pretty darn expensive boats.

So, to me, the jury's still out on whether or not it's ok to use. It does sound like the vendor that supplied Tige with their platforms provided an inferior quality product in some cases. Keep in mind that boat manufacturers don't make many boats, so you don't have the benefit of an large install base to learn from and adapt. They may not always here from the dealers either, which is their primary source of information.

I had a similar situation arise with my Monster Tower. Virtually all of the hardware used to attach the tower pieces together rusted, even though it was stainless. I called them up and they said they'd received a bad batch of stainless hardware from a vendor. I promptly got replacements.

All that said, if LabTrainer's platform is delaminating, then it should be replaced, but I've not heard that this is actually the case. If it doesn't look so good after a weeklong vacation in some mineral rich water, then it probably just needs some TLC to clean it up.

If you do have an Iroko platform, it does sound like you need to make sure you oil for sure or it will have issues. Other types of teak are a little more resilient, but they also need to be oiled and cleaned regularly.

BTW, if you need a good product for this, try that Snappy Nu Teak Cleaner I did a review of. It really does a good job of removing minerals and other crap your teak platform will absorb.

Your mileage may vary.

[Jason B]

Unfortunately, and please don't take this as mean/rude, that's not my intention, Jim has pointed out an exorbitant number of issues on his boat. Some legit--some not so much. I have spoke to people Jim has dealt directly with and at this point he has made so many waves certain individuals are just tired of dealing with him. He has been labelled. Wrong or right--that's the reality of it. In fact this certain individuals words were, "some people you just aren't going to make happy no matter what you do." Jim has been pegged as one of these people and at this point they are ready to cut him loose--damn the cost of a customer.
This is not from any high-up at Tige so hopefully Jim is in a different position with them. Not from my understanding of the situation but you never know, maybe he'll get somewhere....I just wouldn't hold my breath. Unfortunate, because IMPO I think he should be entitled to what he purchased as far as the TEAK deck goes.

[chpthril]

Most of the issues with 1labs boat, from my perspective, were actually problems that other owners had, and he would latch on to it as a design flaw with his boat and wanted Tige to do a warranty repair on something that was not yet broke. Now I will say that he has had, and may have some minor warranty issues, but hell, most of us have.

IMO, the problem with the "wood" platforms sounds to me to be a workmanship issue, not a materials issue. If this is found to be the case, then his argument is null.

Jason does have a point, it does seem that 1lab has worn out his welcome with the dealer, the rep, Tige, and of course, with some of us here Dont say it to be mean, just an observation that I'm entitled to post on a public forum.

[dogbert]

I have spoke to people Jim has dealt directly with and at this point he has made so many waves certain individuals are just tired of dealing with him. He has been labelled. Wrong or right--that's the reality of it. In fact this certain individuals words were, "some people you just aren't going to make happy no matter what you do." Jim has been pegged as one of these people and at this point they are ready to cut him loose--damn the cost of a customer.

I think you're right about that. I usually opt for the alternative approach where you try and work out a mutually beneficial resolution. If they think you're going to be reasonable, they'll be willing to do more for you. Always treat others the way you would like to be treated.

[z.beer]

Thanks for the input Dogbert. I understand your points and I am sure once I forward this to Jim so will he. The platform will be refinished when he gets it back from warranty work but the concern is the cracking and splitting documented on this site not by 1Lab but referenced by him that occurred with members who had boats built in 2006 like Jim's was.

Based on conversations to date with Tige, we both doubt he will get a real teak platform as defined by the tree experts. If that becomes the decision I am sure he will be displeased with Tige. He probably will try to buy one from the current Manufacturer or a Fiberglass one and put up the one he has on ebay or another site that deals with used parts. That is what I would recommend if he is that concerned.

I hope to get out of this quagmire this weekend when I go see Jim and the boat. There are mixed messages in his family. His wife and daughter are upset re: the teak issues but still want him to keep boat. Based on his conversations with Teak manufacturer of good platforms and Tige reaction unless something changes Monday the 21st I will not buy Jim's boat not only because of teak issue but because of answers to other warranty issues he has documented and reported to his dealer.

Much appreciated.

Zach

[z.beer]

Thank you all for you inputs. I am aware that he has worn out his welcome here and with a guy named Matt and that is his business not mine. I do know he presented his dealer with numerous (4) regarding platform where he is willing to take on some expense and was willing to work with his dealer not against them.

I agree with Jason. If he paid for teak then he should get real teak as defined by tree experts.

I really did not come up here to argue. I was looking for opinion on Iroko wood from people that had or have issues with it and to try and pass on the dates of Iroko use and Teak replacement.

I know the hard head well and he has copied me on all the warranty issues he reported to his Dealer. IMO he has not stated anything to them to get them mad but again I am digressing and I am out of this quagmire.

If members would like to hear where this lands up post me a PM and once Jim and I know answers I will gladly take a minute to update you. I am only speaking to the teak issue.

Thanks Again for your candid inputs. I will pass on this thread to Jim tonight.

As I indicated to Jim I don't feel right about buying a Tige at this point. I will not pollute the thread with my opinion why.

Zach

[Matt Garcia]

What has the dealer done for the teak issue for Jim's boat? If it was me I would just use it until the end of the summer then address the issue. Seems like summer time is the last time I want to deal with anything minor such as teak platform that has nothing wrong with it.

Also what happened to the RZ2 or VE you were considering?

[z.beer]

What has the dealer done for the teak issue for Jim's boat? If it was me I would just use it until the end of the summer then address the issue. Seems like summer time is the last time I want to deal with anything minor such as teak platform that has nothing wrong with it.

Also what happened to the RZ2 or VE you were considering?

Nothing re: teak. It is in for other warranty work and 20 hour check so no affect on summer. He can't boat now anyway due to clusters. He is just trying to get answers and move on.

Jim-1lab offered me one heck of a number to take his 20V off his hands since he doesn't think he will be able to boat with his head this season. He paid dearly for his Arkansas vacation and cluster pain when he went out on his pride and joy.

Jim is tired and sick health wise and fed up with 20V. I just went over the emails he BCC'd me on re: warranty and teak issue and even though I have the patience of a turtle (or something) I would be frustrated with some issues also. The only comment I have against him is that he sent too many emails and his patience grew thin. JIm is know to loose his patience fast and loose his temper.

To answer your other question I am no longer considering those boats. Since out of door prices are still falling on all brands I am looking at MC and BU again and due to Jims vinyl issue I will probably pass on Tige. I like the construction but am not a fan of what I see in Jim's interior with the limited use it has had. Please don't jump on this. It is just what I see.

I am tired of explaing for Jim so when or if he settles the teak issue I will PM or post what happens and then I will be done.


Zach

[z.beer]

Unfortunately, and please don't take this as mean/rude, that's not my intention, Jim has pointed out an exorbitant number of issues on his boat. Some legit--some not so much. I have spoke to people Jim has dealt directly with and at this point he has made so many waves certain individuals are just tired of dealing with him. He has been labelled. Wrong or right--that's the reality of it. In fact this certain individuals words were, "some people you just aren't going to make happy no matter what you do." Jim has been pegged as one of these people and at this point they are ready to cut him loose--damn the cost of a customer.
This is not from any high-up at Tige so hopefully Jim is in a different position with them. Not from my understanding of the situation but you never know, maybe he'll get somewhere....I just wouldn't hold my breath. Unfortunate, because IMPO I think he should be entitled to what he purchased as far as the TEAK deck goes.

Most of the issues with 1labs boat, from my perspective, were actually problems that other owners had, and he would latch on to it as a design flaw with his boat and wanted Tige to do a warranty repair on something that was not yet broke. Now I will say that he has had, and may have some minor warranty issues, but hell, most of us have.

IMO, the problem with the "wood" platforms sounds to me to be a workmanship issue, not a materials issue. If this is found to be the case, then his argument is null.

Jason does have a point, it does seem that 1lab has worn out his welcome with the dealer, the rep, Tige, and of course, with some of us here Dont say it to be mean, just an observation that I'm entitled to post on a public forum.

Note: I am not picking on anyone but of a few posts these were very relavant to topics I feel need to be covered. Zach.

I met Jim at his house tonight after he got home from picking up his boat. We talked for a while about his cluster issues and then we decided to go out and chat awhile about his warranty visit and some of the stuff sent to me today while we went to the garage and started going over the 20V. All of his real warranty issues that were submitted were addressed by Reeds Marine and there were a few that the they could not handle at this time but they will be addressed.

Jim was very pleased at how Reeds Marine addressed his issues. Contrary to opinions above, and I am not stating this to be rude either, but Reeds Marine addressed all issues submitted to them and when he brought up the issue raised (per chpthril and Jason) to see if he wore out his welcome with Reeds, Keith seemed to have no concerns (per Jim) and continued to help him with issues about his Speedset and flashing the ECM. They also talked about the yellow powdercoat concern on the billets, and a seam in his sundeck engine cover. Keith reccomends sandblasting the billets and will look into the SUndeck V seam more.

Keith suggested that so Jim doesn't loose more time this season that he wait till season closes and go from there for a couple of open items. All in all Jim reported 20 warranty concerns which Reeds has addressed and fixed 17 of the ones they had parts for. Jim is extremely pleased with the Reed's Service team and how helpful and courteous they have been regarding these real issues. Keith with Reeds also agrees with Jim regarding the concerns he has over the swim platform. It is the first time they are hearing about it but based on the facts collected by Jim(1Lab) they will work with him, Harvey and Tige to get to a resolution that all can live with(hopefully). Jim should know more on Tuesday.

OBTW it is a material issue first and maybe a workmanship issue once it fails. IMO more can be said here but in the best interest of parties concerned I will not speak to them at this time. PM me if you want and if I can speak to your questions. I would be more than happy to.

Not to be rude again but it seems that Jim's original concerns regarding his 20V when he first bought it that were spurned on by the Tigeowners site and owners comments and continue to be thrown back at Jim because he was not happy with the original answers and some documented limits until he got factual answers from the folks at Reeds and I think Lanny Owens.

A question I have is why are you entitled to your opinions, good, bad and indifferent but you want to crucify him because he also vocalized his? This cheesehead thinks double standards at work.

Whatever Lanny Owens feels about him is his business and not mine nor should it be yours. It should be between Lanny, Jim, Reeds and Tige management if it is a problem.

Jim is not in the world to win brownie points with Tige. His quote is "I am the _______ customer and as one I am entitled to service and the courtesies that should be given to customers. Other than his bout with Matt in which he feels had a lot of misunderstanding occur in it. From what I can tell, Jim has not sent cross words to Tige directly with a possible exception to Lanny. The few pieces of correspondence he sent to Tige Warranty he was more than courteous as a customer.(I read all of them and a pot full of his posts online along with others that were related since I registered). He was negative towards Tige on the general discussion threads but those were his opinion just like you have yours. Lanny may be mad at him but that is Lanny's business. Jason and chpthril he is not your customer so why are the bees in your bonnets?

When I told Jim about the "some of us here" comment he smiled. That was it, just one big smile no words. It is funny to me that Jim cannot state his opinions directly on this forum but he can be misquoted by the ones who can post. That also brought a smile to his face. He has been silent for I think a few weeks and some of you still have axes to grind. Whatever!

I just want to close on the Teak concern and comments. How happy would the naysayers here be if they purchased a BMW Sport model custom ordered and built and when delivered it came with the wrong wheel package. Heck nothing is wrong with the wheels yet, no rust, nice shine and they roll but they were not ones ordered. Would you want to keep them? Issue is very similar isn't it. This happened to my brother. There is no good reason why Jim should wait for the Iroko wood to fail. He has shown( based on build and ship dates of his boat and facts about the first shipment of European grown Burmese Teak he can state factually that Iroko wood was used to build his deck and that Irocko although a substitute like the wheels is not what was specified. It is not teak. Fact not opinion! He would like what he was told he was buying and what was on Web and literature for 2007 Models.

I just looked at the time and I need to stop. To those this teak issue may affect, PM me and I will share what I can when I can. To members that I have wasted your time all I can say is I felt someone needed to speak for Jim with the mud slinging continuing his way. I am done sharing both my thoughts and some of Jims warranty facts. To those that dislike Jim let it go. Enough already. Most of you are adults and what occurs between him and the Tige family he deals with is their business not yours. If I wasted your time shoot me(please) not Jim. My wife needs the insurance!


Have a great boating weekend. I am heading to Castlerock with Jim to see if getting him in the sun for a few hours will help his head. If his head goes boom I can drive us back.

Thanks for your time. No more rebuttals from me. I write way to much. Sorry

I hope to get out of this quagmire this weekend or at worst next week. This is worse than day time soaps.

Zach

OBTW CP3 your PM to me was wrong. I am not Tessa or 1Lab and as I have already commented back to your PM. I have been a good friend of Jim's since before we went in the Corps together(semper fi)and he has passed me ton's of links and comments to read from all parties going back to tessa days. It is sad, scary and funny that 30 to 50+ year old men act this way. Jim included. Thank you to the member who sent me the PM link calling me 1Lab in the PW world. I wish I was his size. I have 70lbs on him.

[kko]

IMPO we dont need jim errrrrrrrr zach spewing all this crap on this site. take it back over to wakeworld and spew some more over there maybe that will make you feal better. the platform issue is a non issue get over it.

[chpthril]

Re: Teak or Iroko or what ever it's made out of.

Everyone needs to read the bottom line of the Limited Warranty Agreement

http://www.tigeowners.com/downloads/..._agreement.pdf

"Tige reserves the right to modify it's products through changes in design or material without being obligated to incorporate such changes in products of prior manufacture"

[z.beer]

Re: Teak or Iroko or what ever it's made out of.

Everyone needs to read the bottom line of the Limited Warranty Agreement

http://www.tigeowners.com/downloads/..._agreement.pdf

"Tige reserves the right to modify it's products through changes in design or material without being obligated to incorporate such changes in products of prior manufacture"

Thanks for researching that clause. It is a common one and it is too bad all Irocko wood owners will be affected.

We will see if it is applied on Monday but I think the issue is put to bed with the good old right to change. It is too bad for other Iroko owners too.

One good thing, quagmire is over and Jim got all his other warranty issues covered and I can go back to what I was doing.

[Jason B]

Just to be clear I did not, nor will I ever, state a name as a source. Further, I did not state the individual's occupation, employer or any other personal information in any way. This was done for a reason.

I think Reed's is a PHENOMENAL dealer from my dealings with them and I am glad to hear they have been so good to Jim. They have bent over backward for me even when my requests were unreasonable.

I am also sorry you feel Tige will not be a good choice for you. 17 (and counting) out of 20 issues resolved sounds like ONE HELL OF A REASON to go with Tige to me!! But, I digress, it's your money, your choice and I truly hope you find a boat you love as much as I thought Jim loved his.

I would be curious to hear what comes of your issue with the teak if you wouldn't mind keeping us posted.

Have a great summer and again, best of luck.

[ragboy]

I think I know what a cluster headache feels like now.

WTF?????

[ragboy]

It's like driving past a trainwreck, just can't help but look.