2007 20V with Kicker Tower Speakers

[illiniboarder88]

This thread is starting to look like an electrical engineering course.

[chpthril]

This thread is starting to look like an electrical engineering course.

Aint it great tho

[philwsailz]

Tige wires the 4 speakers in 2 parallel pairs bridged, so the amp sees 2ohms, This caused my amp to clip at higher volume so Phil had me rewire it 1 speaker per chnl so the amp sees a 4ohm load and puts out about 45w p/chnl. No clipping, less heat, less, current draw, better sound, and I can turn the volume near wide open

At 2ohms bridged, the amp can put out near the speakers rated RMS, but if you cant crank it up, what is the advantage? This is why I say it is under powered for the 4. It will power 2 of the KS's or 2 PRO60's just perfect, but 4 is pushing it IMHO, so I say step up to a higher output amp rating at "X"watts x 4 @ 4ohm like the zx650.4. I plan to do this in the next couple of months.

Hopefully Phil will step in with a more complete answer

Bridging is SUCH a complicated subject!!! It will cause your head to spin. series v/ parallel. bridged, 4-ohms, 2-ohms, 1-ohm...

The BEST way to go at it is with a very simple approach. This is a good thing to follow for any and all full-range speakers in a boat or a car.

* If you intend to run two speakers, get a two channel amplifier.
* If you intend to run four speakers, get a four channel amplifier.
* Select the amplifiers by choosing one that has equal or slightly greater RMS power output than the RMS rating of the speakers.

If you do this and exactly and only this you will benefit from the following things:
* manageable current draw through the electrical system
* amplifiers drawing less current create less heat, and run cooler and longer
* reliability is improved
* The ratio of speaker load impedance to amp output impedance is ideal, and damping factor is at or close to ideal.


SO... what is the next question...

[philwsailz]

So help me understand that concept a bit more, is that for all amps or just that brand of kicker? What if you have a 2 channel amp and you're trying to drive 4 speakers?

In general it is for all amplifiers...
Very simply, (in my opinion) if you have 4 speakers, you need 4 amp channels.

That being said lets make two arguments:
1. The manufacturer says its STEREO amp is 2-ohm stable per channel, and the amp is good for 100 watts per channel into 2-ohms per channel. You want to drive two pairs of speakers.
* If the speakers are 4-ohms (and no lower) you can wire two speakers in paralell, (plus to plus, and minus to minus) resulting in a 2-ohm load and connect that to the amp. Same thing for both sides of the amp, left and right.
* The 100 watts per channel is driving two speakers in parallel, so each speaker is getting 50 watts.

2. The manufacturer's amp is NOT 2-ohm stable. It does put out 100 watts per channel into a 4-ohm load, and no lower. You still want to wire two pair of speakers to the amp.
* You will have to wire the speakers in SERIES, (amp plus to the first speaker, first speaker minus to the second speaker's plus, thn the second speakers minus back to the amp)
* The series wiring of the speakers results in an 8-ohm load. That results in a power output per channel of roughly 50 watts. Since there are two speakers in series, each speaker gets half of that, i.e 25 watts per speaker.

[philwsailz]

Does any one have a 2007 20V with premium sound and the Kicker Tower Speakers? Are you happy with the stock Kicker Tower speakers or is the sound bad enough to require an upgrade to Wetsounds?
Do you know what model Kicker Tower speakers you have as what were the stock 2007 speakers.


Thanks

To jump on the original question.

The speakers were the KS652,

You have 4 speakers, right? If so, we can work to re-wire the system in a manner that will optimize the power output, AND reliability of the system. It will be better after we get done with it.

Again, assuming you have four speakers, they are likely wired the same way that Afrodan's were in this thread: http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5996

AS was discovered , two pairs in parallel on a bridged amp is a no-no, it is not the best way... Go read through the thread and see if it makes sense.

If you have two speakers, we can still get them hopping; just a little bit of tweaking at the amp controls.

After going through these exercises, you may well find that the KICKER's are excellent for your needs. The Wetsounds stuff is good stuff, but efficiency is part of the design, if not key to the design. CHP is right, one cannot compare cones and domes to horns; their operation and the method they reproduce sound is a little different.

Your final decision should be based on listening.

[illiniboarder88]

lots of kids (or their parents) pay about $1,000 a credit hour for this kind of instruction.

[philwsailz]

lots of kids (or their parents) pay about $1,000 a credit hour for this kind of instruction.

I can share a treatsie on vintage outboard flywheel magneto ignition of you like...

See there are alnico magnets on the flywheels. They are arranged in such a manner that the oles of the magnet fly past the laminated heels of the ignoition coil's core. there are three heels to the laminated core, resulting in four magnetic polarity changes for each magnet pass. The ignition coil actually has two coils in it, the primary and the secondary... blah blah blah....

[Guest]

To jump on the original question.

The speakers were the KS652,

You have 4 speakers, right? If so, we can work to re-wire the system in a manner that will optimize the power output, AND reliability of the system. It will be better after we get done with it.

Again, assuming you have four speakers, they are likely wired the same way that Afrodan's were in this thread: http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5996

AS was discovered , two pairs in parallel on a bridged amp is a no-no, it is not the best way... Go read through the thread and see if it makes sense.

If you have two speakers, we can still get them hopping; just a little bit of tweaking at the amp controls.

After going through these exercises, you may well find that the KICKER's are excellent for your needs. The Wetsounds stuff is good stuff, but efficiency is part of the design, if not key to the design. CHP is right, one cannot compare cones and domes to horns; their operation and the method they reproduce sound is a little different.

Your final decision should be based on listening.

Thanks. Based on this thread and information you, chp and wetsounds gave me I decided to go a different route than the original by using 2 PRO 80 B stock speakers and I believe a Kicker KX550.2 amp because like the b stock P80's the amp was relatively cheap and I will go 1 channel per speaker.

Thanks for the audio lessons and analog-tronics refreshers. I am a computer engineer. All I know is 1's and 0's and lot of logic for micro based embedded systems etc. I deal in another world. Sometimes it is based on Vaporware.

[Studman]

Idk would you really get that much more volume out of a 650 over the 350 im sure you would get a clearer sound. Idk IMO I think that that would be some wasted money if you looking for the ultimate competition system go for it. Sounds like you know more than me anyways though lol

[chpthril]

Idk would you really get that much more volume out of a 650 over the 350 im sure you would get a clearer sound. Idk IMO I think that that would be some wasted money if you looking for the ultimate competition system go for it. Sounds like you know more than me anyways though lol

With a quick check online, the 650.4 is only $50 more then the 350.4. I have clear sound now, just not getting the most out of the speakers.

[Studman]

Yah for sure but ur looking at more than $50 cause u have to buy a whole other amp. I'll look a 650 for the next boat. Next boat will not have a stereo in it we'll take it to the local shop that does our cars etc. Gonna go with kicker components inside. The more i hear about the Wet Sounds speakers might get those on the tower. And prob 2 L7s in the boat. Any suggest on where to put them? dont really want one under the drivers seat cause it kills u driving i think thats about my only choice though

[chpthril]

Yah for sure but ur looking at more than $50 cause u have to buy a whole other amp. I'll look a 650 for the next boat. Next boat will not have a stereo in it we'll take it to the local shop that does our cars etc. Gonna go with kicker components inside. The more i hear about the Wet Sounds speakers might get those on the tower. And prob 2 L7s in the boat. Any suggest on where to put them? dont really want one under the drivers seat cause it kills u driving i think thats about my only choice though

You are correct, but 350.4 came in the boat, so I really didn't "pay" for it and I will sell the 350.4 for a little $$$. So, at the end of the day, I will not be out the whole cost of the ZX650.4 ($349 from Crutchfield)

In it's original context, my post was for someone that had no tower speakers or amp at all, and was looking at buying some from thier dealer. They dealer, more then likely, would have sold them a ZX350.4, and I simply commented that I felt it was a little under powered for 4 tower speakers, but great for 2.

[Studman]

Does any one have a 2007 20V with premium sound and the Kicker Tower Speakers? Are you happy with the stock Kicker Tower speakers or is the sound bad enough to require an upgrade to Wetsounds?
Do you know what model Kicker Tower speakers you have as what were the stock 2007 speakers.


Thanks

We both were a bit off topic anyway lol

[Guest]

I don't care if you are off topic. Wife just called. My Pro 80's arrived and so did my amp. Now if I had the boat on it's newly finished low rider designed trailer the tower Pro 80's and amp could be installed and ready for spring and I would be in heaven. Yippee


After I made it home and had dinner I opened up one of the PRO 80 speaker boxes.
Man are the PRO80's big and heavy. So far cannot tell why they are b stock. They may interfere with the bimini. We may need to adjust where the bimini is mounted.

They should look nice on the tower and on the small 20V I don't think I need anything else on the tower. The 2 channel amp to drive these puppies is not tiny either. You know all that family storage space they brag about, it is dissapearing quickly on the 20V but it should be worth it.

[samw]

1Lab_trainer

Don't for get pic of that lowered trailer. I have never seen one or heard of anyone doing this. I think it is pretty cool. What did it cost to get a trailer lowered???

Thanks
Sam