Wont buy a Second

[robert theisen]

When i talked to them about some parts they where like it has a PCM? Are you sure? But whatever Im not worried about it. Now that ive spent time with these its pretty simple just have to think like a 15 year old and it will make sense on the programming side!

Got some manifolds from a friend that are PCM and except temp sensors for tunning =)

Boats are several years behind cars as far as engine technology.

[Wickedcummins]

Not that there behind but its a hurtle to get o2 readings in a wet exhaust system

[GIZMO]

Why are you switching to E85? I dont see the advantage with a stock motor. Are you raising compression? static or dynamic? Have you checked injector duty cycle at full load to see if there is enouph room for 20-25% more fuel? And running E85 will effectivley make your tank smaller by needing more fuel to make the same power. I have never seen E85 on any lake fuel dock so you'll need to haul all your own. The only advantage I see is
you could run more timing but power improvment with that will
me minimal. What am I missing?

[Wickedcummins]

To put some exact figures to this phenomenon, switching from 92 Octane premium gasoline to 102 Octane E85 allows you ONE of the following options:
Increasing your boost level by 6psi of boost above your gasoline maximum boost level.
Increasing your static compression ratio by 2.5 compression points above your gasoline maximum safe compression level.
Increasing your timing advance by 13 degrees of timing above what you would use for a gasoline tune.

(Or some combination of the three such as a 3psi boost increase with a 1 point compression hike, resulting in a similar overall increase in compression pressure and flame front travel speed).

Now the advantage of this high octane feature of E85 is that it allows you to build a more aggressive set-up, to reach a higher power goal, while having a similar margin of safety to that of gasoline. The real world benefit of this kind of set-up, is that you have two new possibilities opening up for you in your power build:
1. You can now reach higher power goals, on E85 at the same red-line, and with the same static compression ratio, by being able to run more boost on the same motor, safely.
2. You can now build high compression supercharged set-ups, because you will no longer need to take apart your engine to replace your pistons, to lower your compression ratio, or severely retard your timing to be able to boost a factory high compression motor.

The second interesting fact about E85 ethanol based fuels is that it reaches stoichiometry at an air:fuel ratio of 9.7:1 compared to an air:fuel ratio of 14.7:1 for gasoline.

By dividing those two figures into each-other it becomes apparent that an engine running on E85 needs 48% more fuel flow compared to the exact same engine running on Gasoline. For example, a 400hp 6 cylinder engine will require about 400cc/min injectors for a gasoline setup, but it would need almost 600cc/min injectors to be converted to Ethanol.

The advantage of this information, is that a car that is built to run on E85, has enough injector to also run on gasoline. The benefit of this kind of set-up is that having a dual-map ECU, with large injectors designed for E85, can be ‘detuned’ to reduce it’s injector duty cycle by 48% to run on gasoline. This is essentially how ‘flex fuel’ cars are mapped to run on either fuel, namely because their factory fuel system is oversized (for gasoline) allowing them to run either E85 or Gasoline.

The third interesting fact about E85 is that it has a LOWER energy output than gasoline.

E85 has can produce 25.2 Mega Joules of Energy per Liter of fuel, while Gasoline can produce a more potent 33.7 Mega Joules of Energy per Liter.

Your first thought, might be that gasoline is thus able to produce about 30% more horsepower on the same engine (because gasoline is a more potent fuel chemically speaking), however when you factor in that we are injecting 48% more fuel with E85 to reach a complete combustion and stoichiometery, then the net result of those two figures is that E85 has the potential to deliver 11% more horsepower on the same exact engine, when compared to Gaslone.

This 11% boost in power, is based on a straight gasoline to E85 conversion. More power can be found using E85 by taking advantage of the higher octane rating and tuning specifically for E85 or adding more boost and compression into the mix.

The advantage of this 11% power boost is that you can make more power with the same amount of airflow. The benefit here, is that if you have an engine that is maxed out at say 450hp because that is the maximum amount of air your supercharger can flow, you can add in another 11% (or 50hp!) by converting from gasoline to E85, without having to upgrade your airflow side of the equation (blower included).

[GIZMO]

So what are you doing to your boat motor? High compression, turbo, or supercharger? My impression was you were simply re-tuning with E-85 on your unmodified engine. And in that case there would be no benifit. Also, are you going engine dyno for this tune or just use a wide-band while driving around the lake?
Ive done a lot of dyno tuning on vehicles with centrifical clutches and found quickly this caused the engine to hit load/rpm
combinations that you couldent duplicate with a conventional gear box. I think tuning a boat would be similar. Wouldn't you need to tune with boat loaded in all possible weight combinations?
i.e. boat unloaded at 3000 rpm would have a much different fuel/timing value than full balast at 3000rpm. Maybe im overthinking this, do you plan on changing the program by injector duration and timing value or are you just going to jack up the fuel pressure until you get close to stoichiometric?

[Wickedcummins]

Might want to re read. Or Ill pull it out for you

Your first thought, might be that gasoline is thus able to produce about 30% more horsepower on the same engine (because gasoline is a more potent fuel chemically speaking), however when you factor in that we are injecting 48% more fuel with E85 to reach a complete combustion and stoichiometery, then the net result of those two figures is that E85 has the potential to deliver 11% more horsepower on the same exact engine, when compared to Gaslone.

[Wickedcummins]

11% is another 33hp. But with some skillz and tricks 40-50hp is doable! Cant use a wideband on a boat its a wet Exhaust system. The tune will be from load vs map vs tps! And I plan to tune with EGTS till winter and will pull it up the compression a little and thow it on our engine dyno and get some real power tunes done!

[GIZMO]

No need to re read, Ive read that article before on the E-85 calculator page.

http://horsepowercalculators.net/e85...e85-calculator

Good luck with the fuel switch and keep us posted on how it go's.
I plan on switching my high comp rail engine from race fuel to e-85 next season.

[Wickedcummins]

E85 is great you will love it

[River Runner]

I can clearly see there is about 90% of people whom cant read. I told you what I wanted. All I wanted to know what the fuel and timing algaryhms. Dont worry tho I handled it without them making any effort as a phone call would cost them alot of money!

I have my doubts this will help. Most of us who are knowledgeable about fuel strategies know exactly about the "algorithms"(and how to spell them.)

To put some exact figures to this phenomenon, switching from 92 Octane premium gasoline to 102 Octane E85 allows you ONE of the following options:
Increasing your boost level by 6psi of boost above your gasoline maximum boost level.
Increasing your static compression ratio by 2.5 compression points above your gasoline maximum safe compression level.
Increasing your timing advance by 13 degrees of timing above what you would use for a gasoline tune.

(Or some combination of the three such as a 3psi boost increase with a 1 point compression hike, resulting in a similar overall increase in compression pressure and flame front travel speed).

Now the advantage of this high octane feature of E85 is that it allows you to build a more aggressive set-up, to reach a higher power goal, while having a similar margin of safety to that of gasoline. The real world benefit of this kind of set-up, is that you have two new possibilities opening up for you in your power build:
1. You can now reach higher power goals, on E85 at the same red-line, and with the same static compression ratio, by being able to run more boost on the same motor, safely.
2. You can now build high compression supercharged set-ups, because you will no longer need to take apart your engine to replace your pistons, to lower your compression ratio, or severely retard your timing to be able to boost a factory high compression motor.

The second interesting fact about E85 ethanol based fuels is that it reaches stoichiometry at an air:fuel ratio of 9.7:1 compared to an air:fuel ratio of 14.7:1 for gasoline.

By dividing those two figures into each-other it becomes apparent that an engine running on E85 needs 48% more fuel flow compared to the exact same engine running on Gasoline. For example, a 400hp 6 cylinder engine will require about 400cc/min injectors for a gasoline setup, but it would need almost 600cc/min injectors to be converted to Ethanol.

The advantage of this information, is that a car that is built to run on E85, has enough injector to also run on gasoline. The benefit of this kind of set-up is that having a dual-map ECU, with large injectors designed for E85, can be ‘detuned’ to reduce it’s injector duty cycle by 48% to run on gasoline. This is essentially how ‘flex fuel’ cars are mapped to run on either fuel, namely because their factory fuel system is oversized (for gasoline) allowing them to run either E85 or Gasoline.

The third interesting fact about E85 is that it has a LOWER energy output than gasoline.

E85 has can produce 25.2 Mega Joules of Energy per Liter of fuel, while Gasoline can produce a more potent 33.7 Mega Joules of Energy per Liter.

Your first thought, might be that gasoline is thus able to produce about 30% more horsepower on the same engine (because gasoline is a more potent fuel chemically speaking), however when you factor in that we are injecting 48% more fuel with E85 to reach a complete combustion and stoichiometery, then the net result of those two figures is that E85 has the potential to deliver 11% more horsepower on the same exact engine, when compared to Gaslone.

This 11% boost in power, is based on a straight gasoline to E85 conversion. More power can be found using E85 by taking advantage of the higher octane rating and tuning specifically for E85 or adding more boost and compression into the mix.

The advantage of this 11% power boost is that you can make more power with the same amount of airflow. The benefit here, is that if you have an engine that is maxed out at say 450hp because that is the maximum amount of air your supercharger can flow, you can add in another 11% (or 50hp!) by converting from gasoline to E85, without having to upgrade your airflow side of the equation (blower included).

Thanks for the plagiarism. Because the internet is NEVER wrong....you too....can be as insightful as Wickedcummins.

http://horsepowercalculators.net/e85...e85-calculator

But is was a......

[Fiveflat]

Oh snap!


Did the magician really get called the fuggout?!?














iLaugh

[Fiveflat]

mhmmm

[Wickedcummins]

how is it plagiarism? Because I save a link when people cant seem to grasp the fasts I dont feel like writting a ten page story about how and why e85 makes more power? And Spelling is a bitch from a cell phone and and dont give a **** enough to correct it!

[Fiveflat]

[Wickedcummins]

and that is not the link I have saved this would be

http://www.superchargerperformance.c...uel-conversion