FLIP OR FLOP!

[dogbert]

Razz,
Well I wouldn’t go that far, we have our fair share of problems and issues plaguing this state. It’s not all roses in Oregon that I can assure you .

My issue with your post (not you personally) is this idea that the youth is apathetic and uninterested in the process that will affect us and their future. Its one thing to make that statement, but another to then completely dismiss their involvement because of lack of age and experience. We cannot have it both ways, either dismiss them for lack of experience and wisdom thus removing them from the process or welcome their viewpoints and ideas because they are the future of this nation. I prefer the latter and try to guide their thought processes so they can be informed and productive members of this great nation.

I just got back from a big family dinner where we have all types. I welcome (she probably would say force) my 9yr old daughter to the table because it’s so important that she understand the issues and has the ability to formulate her own viewpoints as she grows older. Too many youth are shut out of these conversations but then expected to be able to formulate rational and wise decisions regarding the future of this country. The ability to reason and apply knowledge is something that unfortunately isn’t taught in our schools so it’s up to parents like you and me to ensure these essential skills are passed to our youth.

I would like to elaborate on my post because I have a sneaking suspicion that many on this site have similar circumstances.

My wife and I do well and have been blessed with a very good life. Recently my daughter and I got in to an argument regarding money and I felt that she was a spoiled brat. I love her dearly, but like a dad I dismissed her behavior to being a spoiled brat. This year I haven’t had a paycheck that was less than 150 hours. I’ve made seven trips to Alaska and two to Irvine with a total of 8 days home. I’m blessed to have a job and feel for those that don’t but I work a lot and on top of that I go to school full time. So I was really irked about the way she was acting and when we would talk she would clam up, probably due to the fact that I over power her with my voice, demeanor and language. How can she compete, she’s a child? So on Friday I picked her up from school and when we got home she wasn’t feeling well so I grabbed her stuff and off to bed she went. At her school there is a folder for parents outlining what they did, homework, and upcoming events….etc. There was a paper in this folder headlined “What I Want To Be When I Grow Up” so I fancied a look. Her answer was short but knocked me off my high horse and really tugged at my heart. Her answer to this question was “I want to spend more time with my daddy, he works very hard and is gone a lot”. My point being that I dismissed her and failed as a parent much like we do to our youth in this country. We expect results without putting in the time to nurture and foster what is truly important in this life. We need to prioritize what is important for our kids, is it the vacations and Tige’ or an attentive father that is there to talk too and instill values and morals in my child. It’s a tough situation that effects not only our children but the children of this country.

Great post, sparky! Helps put things in perspective.

[rogersbm82]

I don't see why you don't see more hydrogen boats. It is so easy to do and your ballast tank would be your gas tank in a way. You would have an endless supply of fuel, as long as it kept raining. lol

[chpthril]

Summer needs to get here QUICK!!!!!!!!!! The last 4 pages have nothing to do with a hybrid boat but everyone's sure got the richards out comparing them

[MoneyPity]

Sparky,

Great post. Your sneaking suspicion is correct, at least in our world. My wife and I both work and our jobs can be demanding of our time (e.g. - my wife is out of town this weekend for her job). IMPO - There is nothing more cutting than hearing one of my children ask "Why do you always have to go to work?" or "When will you be home so we can play baseball (or insert other activity here)" and our kids are only 3 & 5. It is amazing how astute even the youngest children can be.

From one generation to the next, life will be different. The pace of that change is speeding up exponentially. Some things will be better, some will be worse. My mom went to a one-room schoolhouse in the sticks of Kentucky. Fortunately for me, she has worked hard all of her life to improve and she instilled those same values in me. Due to the hard work of my parents, I was fortunate enough to have better opportunities than they did. I hope that I can do the same for my children.

The onus is on those with the experience to pass that off and help educate those with less experience, even though the experiences may not be the same. Those with knowledge/experience on a particular topic assist others with less...isn't that what makes tigeowners.com great?!?

You summed it up nicely. One of the major issues between generations growong up is that the current generation has significantly more single parent environments, both parents working environments and less family time at the breakfast or dinner tables because of the working house hold.

My wife worked full time until or first daughter was born. At that point she went to work part time to supplement my income and I worked Saturdays at the railyards unloading Toyota's. Net result less family time on all ends.

When the kids went to school my wife still worked part time. I saw the kids off to school and my wife was always home when they came home from school. It was how we felt we could be the best parents as possible and still make ends meet until my technology experience started bringing in more income.

I go into the above because in the baby boomer generation our kids were not deprived of material things but many were deprived of having a parent available 24x7. We cannot say that that has had no impact because it did. We have seen it in other families of our generation where discipline was lax and homework and studies for some suffered. Does that make this generation what a few has portrayed them to be? IMO hell no. In many cases quite the opposite. With learning tools , the INTERNET and a whole new era of being able to look at issues and think for themselves has been amazing. I am proud of what my daughters were able to do and just as proud of what 80% of the people they associated with were able to do. The school district they went to had inner city issues like drugs, gangs, socialites and all the crap that existed in the 60's, 70's, 80's ...... The issues have been there for many generations and many kids of those generations are now leaders of companies, the military , government services and so on. Obama at 47 whether we like him or not is a inspiration to our young what can be achieved. Heck he is 47 and attempting to deal with our country. I hope that our system can help steer him in the right direction. At 47 he needs to be one heck of a manager otherwise we will continue to sink. He cannot fix it by himself.

The 17 year old of today have more information available to them at their fingertips then then I could ever imagine when I joined the computer industry eons ago. This gives them the ability to look at issues from many perspectives vs a 1 minute plug on the news and a few paragraphs in the paper.

What the current generations are being cheated out of is a college education because of the enormous costs of getting into good schools. In Illinois we are fortunate to have good State Universities like U of I, Northern Illinois, U of I Chicago etc. But even these schools are run down due to lack of funds and cost too much for many families. Dormitories are sick places to live because they are so old and need of much repair and maintenance but no funds to deal with them.

I digressed a little because they still can continue education with on-line classes that benefit them which many of them use.

In my R&D group we encourage our staff to keep up with continuing education. 30% of the staff are age 30 or less and of those members 70% are taking continuing ed classes where we will only help with those that are directly focused on technology , programming techniques and business.

IMO issues that are easy to say are caused by the laziness of the generation are short sided comments. Computer games are fun no doubt. But many of the games on the market in their own ways help our kids to think in multiple dimensions while playing a silly game. Parental monitoring of what they are playing is important and our responsibility to allow or disallow.

The INTERNET is a means where they can exchange ideas and challenge each other all the time irregardless if who they are exchanging ideas with are a block away or on another continent! Like anything the net has it's dangers and again we as parents need to monitor where and what our kids are using it for.

Bottom line is that in todays information age our kids have access to a world of issues, answers, and endless sources of research info and on and on.

When I was young I watched TV to relax. My daughters chatted on the net while researching homework. One has her masters and the other is working while pursuing an accounting degree.

Unfortunately this tool is not available to families who are living on the poverty line as generations before that had no access to TV and other info sources like a simple encyclopedia set. Now all of this is online.

We as a nation need to figure out how to get these type of tools to the people that cannot stretch their budget to fit in the costs of using the INTERNET in the inner cities across our nation. I donate at a minimum 6+ computers to various charities each year so someone can use the computers and INTERNET access to learn.

In most cases kids who have difficulty in enhancing their educations are not at fault but we are. I am by no means wealthy but I donate time and equipment to pass on what I have learned instead of saying since you are young you have nothing to contribute.

Even if they don't have the answers, what they say may stimulate an open honest conversation that can occur anonymously that gets us thinking without risk.

Instead of labeling them let's find ways to help those who are less fortunate and encourage our 17 year olds to take a chance and voice their opinions whether right, wrong or indifferent.

We should not demean them and slam the door in their faces but instead coach them and give them feedback that is not negative but instead feedback that encourages them to be free thinking and continue to challenge US.
(Rant off)

[Domsz06]

yup you got it right there Razz.

[Domsz06]

Whatever, i'm just glad i won't be around when this "new and progressive" thinking youngest generation totally hoses everything. It won't be pretty that's for sure.

again well said Razz. The younger gen is not getting it. (not like I'm old, but you know)

[Domsz06]

I really dont want to turn this into another arguement, we have enough of those going around lately.

Obviously I still fail to see this BIG PICTURE. So please enlighten me.

I feel I covered every aspect in depth in my last post.

As far as the future I don't think things can get too much worse then they are now. The saddest part is that we fell into the same trap that we did back in the 1920s. Shouldn't that teach us something. Obviously the young generation of that era learned something becuase they were able to recover and turn the country around. Now the next generation seemed to fall back in the same trap. Now its my generations job to recover.

Let me ask you something. When you were my age, were you thinking about your future? Were you thinking about what you were going to do with your life? Were you thinking about what state this country is going to be in when you grow up and become a part of it? Were you thinking about how you can impact the world? Because let me tell you what, I am. And It scares the hell out of me. Because I dont know what its going to be like, but I can prepare the best I can. So that when the time comes I am ready. So is that what you did at age 17 or were you more worried about getting laid next weekend or where you wake up tomorrow?

As for oil goes, this country should have starting moving away from its dependence on it in the 70s. Its been stated in this thread before that the technology used in cars, and now this boat, have been around for decades in Diesel trains.

Oil? you guys don't get it. The oil scare is a media story. There is enough oil for this country for so many years that your children Zad won't have to worry about it.

[Domsz06]

I'm all for reducing emissions, but the problem with hybrid tow vehicles, is that they will never be off the gas while towing.

yeah, but chp a hybrid helps even when it's on. The electric is still helping pull the boat from a stop and that's when the emissions are the worst. So the tahoe would be helping out on emissions since the electric would be helping. Once a vehicle is up and running then it's much more efficient.

[Domsz06]

Zad, i don't want to turn it into an arguement either. I've had 52 years on this earth, some good, some bad watching everything turn to ****. You and your 17 years qualified to go head to head with me?

At 17 I didn't have TIME to get laid, i worked full time for the family biz and went to school full time. At 21 i was helping running & managing the same family biz, going to school and had started a family. At 29 I joined the ARMY because the family biz collapsed due to the '74 recession and i had a family to feed. Would you do that? So in essence, yes i was thinking about my future because i didn't have a choice, i was being responsible! I was raised with morals of what was right and wrong, I sure as **** didn't spout off spewing crap out my mouth thinking i had all the worlds answers or repeating what i read off of the internet.

The gist here, does your generation have that kind of enthusiasm? Dedication or determination? Hell no they don't and you know it. Look around you, your comment of your generation getting the country out of this mess is a joke acknowledged by many. Many of the top Universities have stated the dismal outlook going forward. They were talking about your generation. Overweight, lazy, unenthused, stoned and unfortunately under educated without a clue where they are going for the most part. I'm not lumping you in that category as we've never met, but the statistics show a good portion of your generation is just that.

The BIG picture if you haven't figured it out is that MAN has ruined this planet and it WILL only get worse and while yes it MAY heal itself long, long after we are gone there is no way to correct the wrongs due to unwise decisions made long ago and the IGNORANCE of people to accept that and try to help ANYWAY we can. Now ever increasing over population, shortages of food, shrinking agricultural lands, dissapearing fossil fuels will eventually lead to mans downfall. Talking about what the country should have done is just an excuse for ignoring the future and not having an answer.

Third world countries either too ignorant or greedy, having just attained either the status or technologies we had 30 years ago are speeding up the process. Mexico is about to implode literally from the inside out and pouring more drugs into this country than we can begin to stop or you'll hear on the news. How will your generation fix all of this siiting on their fat asses eating twinkies playing video games while texting their BFF and using those same drugs?

Your only kidding yourself if you think any of this can be reversed before this planet, sick of the parasite called man, closes the final chapter. And while some scientists will state it's a cycle the earth is going through, man has only made it much worse. So let's keep thinking that way, "it's only saving 5% emmissions" or "I don't contribute that much", that way you can help speed things up for your generation. Did you know the technology existed in the 1940's to more than double the current mpg of a vehicle? It never saw the light, It wasn't financially sound for the oil companies and was squashed.

You stated your scared, son you damn well better be because it's only going to get a hell of alot worse and as it does society will just keep on collapsing. But your twinky eating, video gaming buddies won't care, they'll be too stoned to notice anyway.

And BTW i wasn't stupid enough i guess to contribute the current economic mess. I bought my home 18 years ago on a 30 year fixed and only re'fied to gain a lower rate. I wasn't one of those dumbasses stupid enough or ignorant enough to buy into an arm mortgage. I didn't have to have everything and help lead this country to excess.

Remember all of this mess, everything that's happened to this 4.55 billion year old planet & this once hopefull society, has been done so in slightly over 100 years. So tell me Zad, what exactly are you going to be ready for?

Still think the future can't get any worse?

I'm not attacking you Zad, i just think you and your gen better get wise and get their **** together fast if your going to be of any help at all. I know a lot of us "old" guys think the same, as did our fathers too. The problem is each generation degenerates more and more. If you want to banter more on this then we'll take it offline...

well said razz!!

[Domsz06]

um.....

were we not talking about a new hybrid boat?

[MoneyPity]

um......

it started that way..................


but then someone turned at the detour sign...................

[xpjim1]

I believe this post went

[MTtigekid]

um......

it started that way..................


but then someone turned at the detour sign...................

I believe this post went

it was like a head on collision.. horrible but no one could look away

[chpthril]

Are you guys still seeing who's got the biggest

[MTtigekid]

Are you guys still seeing who's got the biggest

haha i lost that game along time ago.. dont have the vocabulary for it