FLIP OR FLOP!

[yllw20]

can you get the hybrid tax rebate? is this all part of the hopey, hope, hope and changey change change plan?

[mtnsmith]

There are already some hybrid cruisers on the market, like you said, they produce electricity that is stored in batteries either through generator, wind generators, solar cells, or by being driven by a sail when windy and using the propellers in the water spinning while the boat is sailing to hydraulically generate the power. These boats all have the same things in common though, they are large, slow, and terribly expensive as compared to their traditional counterparts. We will definitely be seeing more of these types of technology on the water, but it will be several years before things are perfected. The marine environment is a lot more difficult and dynamic to work with than four wheels on the pavement. I gotta give it to epic though, talk about a bold move from essentially a startup company, more power to 'em!

[Fast1911]

that mirror sure does look sweet......

[TJRiver]

February 26, 2009 The low-emissions, fuel-saving benefits of hybrid technology aren't limited to the freeway and systems incorporating electric propulsion are popping up in all areas of transport. On the water we've seen hybrid tugboats and solar hybrid motor-yachts, but this is the first time we've seen hybrid technology in a speedboat. Billed as a world's first electric hybrid sport boat, EPIC Wakeboats EPIC 23E relies entirely on a silent, emissions-free electric motor for propulsion and uses half the fuel and produces half the emissions of its combustion-powered equivalent.

Due for release in Spring 2009, details are still scarce on the 23E - it uses a Flux Propulsion EVO 8.1 Marine Drive System which "features an extremely powerful and compact drive motor that draws from cutting-edge battery technology". Recharge takes one about hour and the boat incorporates a touch-screen interface for control of stereo and video entertainment along with the GPS Speed Control.

“The EPIC 23E will change the way people think about water-sports," said EPIC Wakeboats CEO Chris Anthony. "Not only is the design more environment-friendly, but it is a more affordable option for boating enthusiasts at a time when everyone is watching their budgets.”

It's good to see someone has finally realized the benefits of the flux capacitor.........................

[sparky216]

It's good to see someone has finally realized the benefits of the flux capacitor.........................

1.21 gigawatts

[Fit to be Tige]

What was I thinking 1.21 jigawatts!!!

[zad0030]

Maybe this similar to Honda-toyota. Honda makes a hybrid, it doesnt do great but then toyota comes out with theirs and it really sticks.

From a performance perspective this is great! But lets face it, In the large picture, how much money are you really saving?

[Razzman]

Zad, you need to see the BIGGER picture, not the large one. It's about much more than saving YOUR money, how about saving fuel and the environment we live in so future generations can enjoy it too? Not slammin' ya but that's the way most americans think as we're used to excess. If that way of thinking doesn't change soon there won't be any thing to excess about, period. Just sayin, think about it ...

[xpjim1]

x2

[chpthril]

(1)Over 50% reduced total carbon dioxide emissions
(2)Nearly 90% reduced carbon monoxide emissions at wakesurfing rope lengths
(3)Virtually no risk of CO2 poisoning with our hybrid drive system

First off, CO2 is carbon dioxide and is not the poisonous gas we need to fear, it's CO (carbon Monoxide that is colorless, odorless, tasteless poisonous gas omitted from the combustion of Hydrocarbons.

(1) From what? No baseline given, is this from the same engine without an E/H system?

(2) Again, compared to what?

(3) there's is virtually no risk of CO poisoning when surfing behind any late-model ECM controlled EFI engine. I've see the EPA test results, they are below the std's for both the EPA and OSHA.

These statements are very misleading and dangerous. When running the engine, you are exposed the same gasses as any other boat. The stated reductions are only when the engine is off and the electric motor is on.

The Epic 23E burns 50% less fuel than a typical wakeboard boat on a 4 hour wakeboard outing

Gotta call The car manf's tried this in the early days till it was leaked that the test where done on an unloaded Dyno with no people in the cars and no account for wind resistance or uphill and stop and go driving.

Enjoy a full day of unrestricted wakeboarding with this hybrid system
You can wakeboard for 1 hour on batteries without ever burning a drop of fuel

So, it burns 50% less fuel in a 4 hr period, but you can only get 1 hour of wakeboard time in, sorry, doesn't add up.

You can wakesurf for 3 hours on batteries without ever burning a drop fuel
It can be fully re-charged by the generator in about an hour
The 23E can be re-charged from a typical 110v wall outlet or a 220v wall outlet once home or at a dock

Hmmm, what runs the generator???? and what does it burn???? What is burned to make a good portion of the electricity that will be recharging that battery bank when plugged in?

I'd like to know how much weight is added to the boat by the battery bank, generator, and drive motor. This additional weight, that will be towed by our vehicles, will cause an increase in fuel usage, which in turn, adds to the greenhouse gasses, SMOG, carbon emissions (soot), etc.

Sounds like a lot of to me, should be named the Epic AG.

[MTtigekid]

FLOP
cause i dont like blue and white
stir the pot, stir the pot

[zad0030]

Ok, where to start.

I guess I will start by saying that the idea of "We are killing the planet" is wrong. Merely because we are not killing the earth, we are killing ourselves. Its been calculated that the earth is ~4.55 Billion years old. Humans (homo sapiens) on the other hand have only been around for 100k-200k years. To put this in perspective, imagine that the life span of earth is a 24 hour day. Humans will only be around for 5 of the 86,400 seconds. What I am trying to say is that the earth has survived for a very long time, and it will continue to survive with or without us on it. We are only making it worse for ourselves. So much for thinking man (homo sapien).

Now as for hybrid technology. It is still not where we need it to be. Especially with the batteries, they dont last longe enough. So they need to be recharged via gas. It goes by a theory of "dust to dust". Even though the hybrid vehicle, whatever it may be, uses less gas it now uses electricity. Where does that electricity come from. Most likely coal. Another fossil fuel that produces 57% of the United States electricty. Also these vehicles use rare earth element batteries that are harmful to the enviroment.

In order for hybrid technology to have an impact it needs to be environmentally friendly from the top. Which starts with where the energy comes from, IE hydroelectric, wind, and solar. Unfortunately these forms of producing electricity aren't very efficient yet. So do you really think the handful of hybrid vehicles running around now are actually making a difference? Maybe it puts a few extra bucks in your pocket and makes you feel good, but ultimately thats it.

Now the CO2. If the boat is equipped with a catylic converter (which if its as environmentally friendly as it claims it should) it will conver the CO into CO2. CO2 in enough quantity is still a deadly and harmful gas. The reason CO is more deadly, is because it is odorless, tasteless, and colorless. If you are wakesurfing behind a boat thats pumping out CO2 where you are wakesurfing I can see that as being a risk.

I still think that this is not going to live up to its claims. I think that the gas engine will be running a lot to keep up with the demand.

So overall, this is a great step forward. Hybrid technology in boats, atleast we can be called homo sapiens again. But the its still not ready.

Also, one thing that is mentioned on this site quite a bit, "if you can afford to buy a $60,000 boat, why are you worried about the gas?!"

Ok end rant. My fingers are tired and Im not sure what I even stated to begin with.

[MoneyPity]

Last year when we replaced a tow vehicle I was really serious about the Tahoe Hybrid. It had the ability to tow my 20V and when on batteries performance was ok and when needed the v-8 would kick in.

The vehicle was a step in the right direction to deal with the hydrocarbons issues. Putting that aside, the price of the hybrid was in the upper $50k range and even with gas prices were they were at last year the payback of the Cost delta between the hybrid and an E85 version was a long pay back period with hybrid vs ethanol or gas. The 08 LT I bought was almost $20k less than the Hybrid. I agree with the need to do what we can to save the environment but the cost has to be affordable. Even in the economy models of vehicles the the time it takes to make up the price difference between hybrid and conventional/E85 is still too wide a gap IMO. E85 is a great idea. problem with it is between where I live and where we vacation I could only find 2 stations on the route that sell E85. I am sure they are more but not as a quick fuel stop on a long trip.

[Razzman]

Ok, where to start.

I guess I will start by saying that the idea of "We are killing the planet" is wrong. Merely because we are not killing the earth, we are killing ourselves. Its been calculated that the earth is ~4.55 Billion years old. Humans (homo sapiens) on the other hand have only been around for 100k-200k years. To put this in perspective, imagine that the life span of earth is a 24 hour day. Humans will only be around for 5 of the 86,400 seconds. What I am trying to say is that the earth has survived for a very long time, and it will continue to survive with or without us on it. We are only making it worse for ourselves. So much for thinking man (homo sapien).

Now as for hybrid technology. It is still not where we need it to be. Especially with the batteries, they dont last longe enough. So they need to be recharged via gas. It goes by a theory of "dust to dust". Even though the hybrid vehicle, whatever it may be, uses less gas it now uses electricity. Where does that electricity come from. Most likely coal. Another fossil fuel that produces 57% of the United States electricty. Also these vehicles use rare earth element batteries that are harmful to the enviroment.

In order for hybrid technology to have an impact it needs to be environmentally friendly from the top. Which starts with where the energy comes from, IE hydroelectric, wind, and solar. Unfortunately these forms of producing electricity aren't very efficient yet. So do you really think the handful of hybrid vehicles running around now are actually making a difference? Maybe it puts a few extra bucks in your pocket and makes you feel good, but ultimately thats it.

Now the CO2. If the boat is equipped with a catylic converter (which if its as environmentally friendly as it claims it should) it will conver the CO into CO2. CO2 in enough quantity is still a deadly and harmful gas. The reason CO is more deadly, is because it is odorless, tasteless, and colorless. If you are wakesurfing behind a boat thats pumping out CO2 where you are wakesurfing I can see that as being a risk.

I still think that this is not going to live up to its claims. I think that the gas engine will be running a lot to keep up with the demand.

So overall, this is a great step forward. Hybrid technology in boats, atleast we can be called homo sapiens again. But the its still not ready.

Also, one thing that is mentioned on this site quite a bit, "if you can afford to buy a $60,000 boat, why are you worried about the gas?!"

Ok end rant. My fingers are tired and Im not sure what I even stated to begin with.

No offense meant here Zad but maybe as you get a bit older you'll see the bigger picture because right now you're still missing it, and trying to wage a war of book smart words over common sense won't get you there.

[MTtigekid]

Ok, where to start.

I guess I will start by saying that the idea of "We are killing the planet" is wrong. Merely because we are not killing the earth, we are killing ourselves. Its been calculated that the earth is ~4.55 Billion years old. Humans (homo sapiens) on the other hand have only been around for 100k-200k years. To put this in perspective, imagine that the life span of earth is a 24 hour day. Humans will only be around for 5 of the 86,400 seconds. What I am trying to say is that the earth has survived for a very long time, and it will continue to survive with or without us on it. We are only making it worse for ourselves. So much for thinking man (homo sapien).

Now as for hybrid technology. It is still not where we need it to be. Especially with the batteries, they dont last longe enough. So they need to be recharged via gas. It goes by a theory of "dust to dust". Even though the hybrid vehicle, whatever it may be, uses less gas it now uses electricity. Where does that electricity come from. Most likely coal. Another fossil fuel that produces 57% of the United States electricty. Also these vehicles use rare earth element batteries that are harmful to the enviroment.

In order for hybrid technology to have an impact it needs to be environmentally friendly from the top. Which starts with where the energy comes from, IE hydroelectric, wind, and solar. Unfortunately these forms of producing electricity aren't very efficient yet. So do you really think the handful of hybrid vehicles running around now are actually making a difference? Maybe it puts a few extra bucks in your pocket and makes you feel good, but ultimately thats it.

Now the CO2. If the boat is equipped with a catylic converter (which if its as environmentally friendly as it claims it should) it will conver the CO into CO2. CO2 in enough quantity is still a deadly and harmful gas. The reason CO is more deadly, is because it is odorless, tasteless, and colorless. If you are wakesurfing behind a boat thats pumping out CO2 where you are wakesurfing I can see that as being a risk.

I still think that this is not going to live up to its claims. I think that the gas engine will be running a lot to keep up with the demand.

So overall, this is a great step forward. Hybrid technology in boats, atleast we can be called homo sapiens again. But the its still not ready.

Also, one thing that is mentioned on this site quite a bit, "if you can afford to buy a $60,000 boat, why are you worried about the gas?!"

Ok end rant. My fingers are tired and Im not sure what I even stated to begin with.

told ya you just needed a good rant