If GM FAILS

[FacePlant]

Well, they are not in need of a cash infusion, so they are doing better than most, including companies like Toyota.

Yes, because Mullaly sold off assetts a few years ago. Ford has over 30 Billion in operating capital because of it. They are certainly the strongest of the 3 now....

[dogbert]

Yes, because Mullaly sold off assetts a few years ago. Ford has over 30 Billion in operating capital because of it. They are certainly the strongest of the 3 now....

It's all about operating capital and your ability to manage it. I go back to my earlier comment. The others are like addicts...giving them money doesn't fix the problem.

[Surfdad]

huh? Some of that is so vaugue as to be nebulous and your reference to newly merged Sirius and XM as if it's a viable concern is...I don't know, odd comes to mind. Perhaps I am just not understanding what it is you wish to convey. I don't mean that as a personal attack, I truly am not understanding I guess.

I just checked nasdaq and SIRI it's trading at 15 cents a share, which is the market's factoring in it's eventual demise. (Which BTW was one of GM investments and they loaned them something like 150 M) .

The Motely Fool has this to say about the venture that has operated in the red since inception, in it's stocks to avoid in 2009 article:

"Sirius XM Radio (Nasdaq: SIRI)
With more than $1 billion in debt coming due in 2009, and barely one-third that amount in cash, the market's resigned to bankruptcy as a forgone conclusion for the satellite radio service. However, if management can somehow finagle a debt rollover, investors could be sitting on a viable company trading for a teeny-tiny fraction of what it used to.

I guess that could happen, but with a debt market that's completely shut out anything junk-related, it seems like a fairy tale to me. CEO Mel Karmazin has said that bankruptcy isn't an option, but need I remind you that we heard similarly reassuring bouts of optimism from the CEOs of Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers before their demises?

If bankruptcy truly isn't an option, and the debt market refuses to hear Sirius' case, perhaps a massive outside investment that dilutes existing shareholders into oblivion is this company's last hope. While some might cling to the theory that "the most you can lose is $0.15 per share," the inner smart-aleck in me would like to remind you that percentagewise, going from $0.15 to zero is still a 100% loss."

SIRI did a marvelous job of ignoring it's bottom line.

I don't think anyone is indicating that a brief bout with losses is the issue with GM, it's that we, the taxpayers have to bail out large concerns that are clueless.

I guarantee you that should the bailout happen there will be a provision in it that says - you guys have GOT to make a profit, or we're forcing you into bakruptcy.

I apologize if I sound as if accounting and black bottom-lines MUST be the do all and end all, I don't intend that. However, you can't ignore it either and I think for management that does, those companies need to be gobbled up by more profitable and better run organizations, or their assets liquidated. GM wouldn't turn to dust, it would just be acquired and run by a savvy organization. IMO, that is a better option than car-czars and propping up incompetent management.

[jwanck11]

It's all about operating capital and your ability to manage it. I go back to my earlier comment. The others are like addicts...giving them money doesn't fix the problem.

It is about strategy. Without listing and ranking each and every element, I believe it is safe to say that operating capital management is one aspect of strategy. Manage operating capital like a genius with a crap product/product line that no one will buy and there will be no company.

Surfdad -

XM/Sirius have operated for years spending more than 10% of what they take in. You made a generalization in an above post and I used one example (two and now one company) as evidence to refute the statement... no brainer really. I am sorry that it is apparently not clear to someone that seems to have quite a bit on the ball with respect to finances. Truly I am baffled.

Also, most if not ALL companies see red in their lifetimes - it is the cost of innovation and the reason behind capital/debt markets. I just do not know how else to make a fundamental point that everyone understands clearer than that. Numbers are a factor... not the end all be all. If they were, there would be no start up of business to speak of. Most companies spend far more (far in excess of 10% that you mentioned in an above post) than they take in at least once in their history. That is just one of those "facts" where 5 out of 5 (OK maybe 4 out of 5 ) people will walk away with the same perspective/perception.

Where I am ultimately concerned is that increasingly there numbers guys at the top looking through microscopes chasing their tails to pinpoint a cause to put a bandaid on or a stock price to prop up as they fear for their jobs. I do not believe that is going to do anything more than hemmorage more and more money in the long run. This perspective, that is becoming increasingly pervasive, certainly does not follow sound economic (not accounting) thinking.

[jwanck11]

I apologize if I sound as if accounting and black bottom-lines MUST be the do all and end all, I don't intend that. However, you can't ignore it either and I think for management that does, those companies need to be gobbled up by more profitable and better run organizations, or their assets liquidated. GM wouldn't turn to dust, it would just be acquired and run by a savvy organization. IMO, that is a better option than car-czars and propping up incompetent management.

I cannot find in any of my posts where I did ignore it ... I have actually supported its importance, haven't I??? I reread what I wrote and yes, support is there. I have maintained that it is an aspect of what must be in focus to turn things around.

Yeah, there are changes needed for the big 3 - so many places to point a finger - most of that has to do with product lines. No matter what (this is for you too Torsten ) it will take money, money, money to get to a new reality and hopefully viable position that does not exist today. Fund it anyway you want to, but who is going to step in and buy GM or Chrysler at this point. I do not see suitors lined up - maybe I am missing something? I do know that there are massive ill affects that are tied to laying off well in excess of hundreds of thousands more workers and bloating an unreceptive market with product that is all ready not moving - ie. how's your confidence lately? If it is high, you are not like your neighbor cause his is in the toilet and he ain't spending.

[Surfdad]

I cannot find in any of my posts where I did ignore it ...

"Management" you, not YOU personally. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

As for the rest...thanks for sharing your opinion, sir.

[chpthril]

Are the big-3 using UV filters or not?

[da.bell]

Are the big-3 using UV filters or not?

^^^^^

[jwanck11]

Are the big-3 using UV filters or not?

I see the midol still hasn't kicked in has it?

SD - After all they are all opinions aren't they...

[chpthril]

I see the midol still hasn't kicked in has it?

SD - After all they are all opinions aren't they...

No PMS here, I'm just a Biatch

[jwanck11]

LOL!

[scoot18]

There is a casting plant in Romulus Mexico for the 5.7, one of several different locations.

My appologies, I made a mistake in this statement, the Romulus casting facility is in Michigan not Mexico, thought I had this remembered, but I know there is a 5.7 casting facility south of the border, but now I don't recall exactly where it's at.

Sorry.

[chpthril]

Heard over the weekend that the local Pontiac, Buick and GMC dealer is going out of business. Although this is a new owner (bought the franchises about 4 yrs ago) I worked nine years with the previous dealer that built this facility, which consisted of 2 dealers and a bodyshop on one plot, in 1996. I worked there till one of the partners sold out in 02, he saw the handwriting on the wall with GM at that time. This is not good for our area right now, when times where good, we employed about 120 people with just the GM store and bodyshop, and maybe another 75 in the Toyota store. The new owners own both store, and from what I've heard, it's just the GM store closing, Toyo is still holding on.

[SPBFAN]

Heard over the weekend that the local Pontiac, Buick and GMC dealer is going out of business. Although this is a new owner (bought the franchises about 4 yrs ago) I worked nine years with the previous dealer that built this facility, which consisted of 2 dealers and a bodyshop on one plot, in 1996. I worked there till one of the partners sold out in 02, he saw the handwriting on the wall with GM at that time. This is not good for our area right now, when times where good, we employed about 120 people with just the GM store and bodyshop, and maybe another 75 in the Toyota store. The new owners own both store, and from what I've heard, it's just the GM store closing, Toyo is still holding on.

The bleeding starts. This is not good for my job. They owe my company multi millions. I can not state how much but it is a lot. If they do not pay I am a little worried about what it will become for me. I am in consolidation preparation mode just in case.

[dogbert]

Hope things turn around for you guys!