If GM FAILS

[FIC]

If GM fails what will the marine industry do for power plants ? The last year for Ford was 2002 and those were left overs from 1997, and havent see a chrysler marine engine in years, and the Epics with the lexus v8 was a dud, no torque, I was exhausted by the time a got on to plane , so whats left?

[mtnsmith]

I vote lycoming turbine!
Somehow power plants would have to maintain some sort of support. Or else I'll go with a nissan 5.6 v8 or diesel...not that the marinepower will ever die

[MoneyPity]

If GM fails I would think there would be a chapter 11 filing first to allow them to re-organize product line, re-negotiate crippling union contracts and share a corporate jet with Ford. It is possible that they fall on harder times and fail and entirely possible that the marine industry purchase inventory ( highly unlikely) of the Vortex 5.7 block and associated component rights are sold off to highest bidder and needed demand which Could be MP,PCM, Ind mar etc. I would bet on reorganization and the Vortex stays with GM because it is an asset and a probable money maker for them.

[KonaKing]

If GM fails someone will take their place. Do you think we will just stop buying cars or will we go somewhere else. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

This is a free market LET IT WORK LIKE ONE.

[illiniboarder88]

This thread got redug up, and it had me thinking. What do you guys think of the auto companies claiming that bankruptcy is not an option? I'd personally like to hear more than "consumer confidence" as a reason, frankly. I'd be curious to hear peoples' thoughts on this.

[raythompson]

Consumer confidence would slide if an auto maker was in chapter 11. Ask yourself this question? Would you purchase a vehicle from a company that was in chapter 11 when that company continuing to exist is mandatory for warranty work? What if one year later the company fails completely? What happens to the warranty? What about parts beyond normal maintenance items?

Would buy a new boat from a company in chapter 11 with the very real possibility of not having warranty repairs six months later?

Cars are significantly more complicated than a boat with more infastructure systems. Braking, air conditioning, power accessories, and collision protection to name a few.

I know from personal experience when a switch in my '89 Astro failed when the vehicle was five years old. Chevrolet no longer had the part nor could they get the part. I had to resort to a junk yard and even then it was difficult to find. Because of that I will not buy another GM vehicle. I expect to get parts for at least 10 years. Not so according to GM.

Unless reassurances were available to the consumers that warranties would be honored consumers are not going to purchase such a vehicle.

[spenchey2]

Does any one know if the suppliers that supply PCM etc supply any of the big three? If the suppliers for the marine motors are suppliers for the big three I bet their auto business is more than marine. Then what happens to the marine motor companies because they can't get parts? Then we really have a problem getting power plants.

[yllw20]

I think you guys are missing out that there are hundreds of aftermarket vedors out there for parts.....You will also see a rise in and more value in remanufactured parts.
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you have companies like jasper and many others in this market already

[raythompson]

I think you guys are missing out that there are hundreds of aftermarket vendors out there for parts.....You will also see a rise in and more value in remanufactured parts.
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you have companies like jasper and many others in this market already

Yes, for the more common parts. The more obscure parts would be almost impossible to locate. The switch I mentioned is an example. GM was the sole source. When they no longer stocked the switch there was none to be had even from third party sources. Just try and find a matching radio knob for any vehicle that is more than 5 years old. Or even an instrumnet cluster.

Will the demise of a vendor such as GM spawn an entirely new crop of aftermarket parts vendors? Will the government force parts to be available for 10 years?

[Joeprunc]

I don't think GM will go under. They are too big and powerful, if anything another company will buy or merge with them...like Mopar and Mercedes a few years back. They are both still kicking and from what I've read is Mopar's seem to have picked up their quality issues.

[Joeprunc]

On a side note...

...I'm happy with my Tacoma ...well until I have to tow up a hill

[Timmy!]

Consumer confidence would slide if an auto maker was in chapter 11. Ask yourself this question? Would you purchase a vehicle from a company that was in chapter 11 when that company continuing to exist is mandatory for warranty work? What if one year later the company fails completely? What happens to the warranty? What about parts beyond normal maintenance items?

Would you fly on an airline that was in bankruptcy? Would you buy a ticket from that company? My point is that the airlines have been going forever under Chapter 11 so why wouldn't GM? They are selling cars, maybe not as many as they were but the Silverado was the #2 selling vehicle for the month of October beating out the Toyota Camry again. They have plenty of income it's just their spending is way out of control and hopefully Chapter 11 will allow them to renegotiate some of their contracts and bring some of their spending back in to line. I feel that Chapter 11 is the best solution for them and I own a car that is still under warranty by them.

[illiniboarder88]

I don't know all the facts involved, and I'm sure the auto companies will never fully make them public knowledge. that being said, from an outsider's view, it seems like this is the type of scenario that is tailor made for Chapter 11. GM needs to trim bad contracts it made in the past. Ie. legacy contracts, bad dealer contracts, etc. I'm sure the concept of Chapter 11 scares the crap out of both execs and the UAW. A number of the execs would lose their jobs, and many Union benefits would be lost. It's an interesting situation bc I don't think the dems will go too hard after the UAW given the support they just received from the Unions in the election. What is being reported in the news is that CEO's are working for a dollar and driving hybrids. honestly, does anyone think that will rescue the companies? Congress and the media have missed the boat big time here.

[Fast1911]

If GM fails I hope it happens after Jan. 20th so that way we can blame Obama for the failure kinda like it's Bush's fault the economy is bad

[raythompson]

Would you fly on an airline that was in bankruptcy? Would you buy a ticket from that company?

Yes, and I have done so with US Airways. But that is not a long term arrangement where I have to count on the airlines years later for transportation. If I buy the ticket with a credit card, the airline goes completely under, I get the CC company to refund the money. An airline going bankrupt is not going to make my $30K vehicle worthless because of a defective part.

My point is that the airlines have been going forever under Chapter 11 so why wouldn't GM?

Agreed. Chapter 11 is not the end of the world. It merely provides protection while they reorganize. Most importantly it allows them to nullify contracts, especially with the UAW. The unions do not want that as it will significantly impact their position.

They have plenty of income it's just their spending is way out of control and hopefully Chapter 11 will allow them to renegotiate some of their contracts and bring some of their spending back in to line.

Yes, particulary with the excesses of the unions that have to be satisfied. The labor costs are out of control and the union fails to realize this. The union may very well bargain their members out of a job. Union reps are not the smartest cactus in the desert and simple economics is way beyond their comprehension. Union reps are nothing more than lug nut monkeys that worked their way up the food chain. They did not get any smarter in the process.

I feel that Chapter 11 is the best solution for them and I own a car that is still under warranty by them.

Agreed. Chapter 11 as I indicated earlier is not the end of the world. It will allow them to renegotiate the union contract. Get the labor costs down and GM, Ford, and Chrysler can be competitive again.

However, I do not own a GM vehicle and will not ever again. I got soured on the part problem with my Astro van. There is also the matter of leaking rear seals at 20K which they refused to cover (wear item); the speed sensor that failed which they refused to cover (wear item); broken drivers seat mount from improper reinforcement and cheap aluminum; front end ball joints that had to be replaced about every 10K miles (considered a wear item); etc. I was not at all impressed with the vehicle.

I own two Toyota products mostly because of the dealer relationship and their ability and willingness to stand behind the product. The Ford F-150 is OK as far as mechanics but the body is really poor quality, thick gaskets, cheap plastic, rear window leaks, etc.

One time when I was looking at a Dodge pickup (new) I drove the vehicle and informed the salesperson that the A/C was weak. He asked how much gas was in the tank. I said almost nothing. He said that is why the A/C was weak. When the gas gets low the A/C does not work as well. He was absolutely serious. My friend that was with me had to leave the showroom because he could not control his laughter. I followed shortly.

The big three, especially Chrysler, need to up the quality of their vehicles. They also need to make vehicles that consumers want. Chevrolet has some good looking cars in their current line up and the Volt looks very promising. If you doubt the quality of Chrysler look at the cheap plastic used on the headlights and how they yellow and haze over time.

I believe the big 3 will pull through although I am not 100% sure about Chrysler. If their backs are pushed against the wall, rather than looking for welfare, they will find a way to continue operations.