The Economy

[FIC]

As a dealer I know how the economy is effecting us but how is everybody out there across the nation doing and what do you think the future holds?

[illiniboarder88]

Things will rebound, but it will take some time. That being said, I am a little shaded on this issue bc my area (central IL) hasn't been hit as hard. We have staid a little more even. We didn't see the spikes up when the economy was rocking and we haven't seen the steep drops when it's bad. I feel for you guys out there on the West Coast.

[sparky216]

The west coast is fine, some industries are getting hit hard and some are not. My wifes business broke 3 record days this month for revenue.......I think we will be fine as long as the govt allows business to thrive by keeping taxes reasonable and stop the bail-out mindset. I still see the Costco parking lot FULL of cars and there are many new vehicles on the road..... this whole "were in the next depression" crap is crazy. It's ususally being spouted by those being directly affected by the economy. Everyone has been griping about the economy for the last 8 years, guess they didn't realize how good and fake it really was! Let everything reset, allow people to pay off debts, and let failing businesses FAIL because there is a reason for the failure. Throwing money at it is stupid, the airlines all went into bankrupcy and they were still flying and employing and redoing their union obligations. Let the automakers go bankrupt so they can redo the union benefits and become profitable...etc.

It's all good, Obama will save us

[mneal]

I think it will rebound,I don't think it will be overnight, but will rebound. I agree with the above people , the bailout trend is BS, nothing good will come that. I worked in the auto industry right outta school and the waste was unbelievable. The unions are killing the industry and they can either fix that or we can throw $$ at them forever. The unions have such a strangle hold on them and they are never gonna let up, they can soon have a strangle hold on a empty plant, their choice.

[mtnsmith]

It will be interesting what happens with all the union required pensions for the big 3. When citi dropped so much and all the pensions had to sell off because they can't own petty stocks, that is is money down the drain! The economy will rebound, in some form or other. As investment banks become commercial and invest in smarter choices the money will become available again. I did just pump few hundred $ to FIC though, helping his economy

[FIC]

I think it will rebound,I don't think it will be overnight, but will rebound. I agree with the above people , the bailout trend is BS, nothing good will come that. I worked in the auto industry right outta school and the waste was unbelievable. The unions are killing the industry and they can either fix that or we can throw $$ at them forever. The unions have such a strangle hold on them and they are never gonna let up, they can soon have a strangle hold on a empty plant, their choice.

Its not all a union problem , management made a lot of bad choices on the which vehicles they built , but the larger blame goes on the govorment , for not allowing the car manufactures to compete with imports on an equal basis. The Nixon adminstration was the only one who addressed this issue when he imposed a tarriff to equal the ammount that the big three had to deal with in, ohsha standards, inssurance benifits, including workmans comp, and enviremental. Also the imports at the time didnt meet epa standards, which allowed them to post higher fuel economy. At that time with our emmision inspections we would have to create all kinds of vacuumn leaks and bogus fuel adjustments to get an import through inspection, and than readjust back to spect. Today the imports still are subsidised by there govorments , Im not saying they have done a good job, but they have been fighting an uneven playing field.

[dogbert]

I agree that unions are only part of the problem. The deregulation of the financial markets right at the end of Clinton's term combined with our foreign oil dependence made our economy very vulnerable. You saw an unrealistic run up in both oil and home prices. Like the housing collapse here in Texas in the late 80s, something eventually has to give and it collapses like a house of cards. Unfortunately, this time we're talking more than just a few regional S&Ls and Texas. It's effect is far reaching.

I think what everyone needs to realize is that we are in a global economy and there's very little you can do to prop up inefficient businesses. Any money you throw at the problem is completely wasted and only staves off the inevitable. Instead of preserving the status quo, we should be putting our chips behind new opportunities. Why couldn't we be the leaders in alternative energy? I hear lots of really good ideas out there. Let's get them funded and accelerate their trip to the market!

I hope the folks in Washington, including our new President, pull themselves together and focus on the problem instead of each other.

[jwanck11]

I agree that unions are only part of the problem. The deregulation of the financial markets right at the end of Clinton's term combined with our foreign oil dependence made our economy very vulnerable. You saw an unrealistic run up in both oil and home prices. Like the housing collapse here in Texas in the late 80s, something eventually has to give and it collapses like a house of cards. Unfortunately, this time we're talking more than just a few regional S&Ls and Texas. It's effect is far reaching.

I think what everyone needs to realize is that we are in a global economy and there's very little you can do to prop up inefficient businesses. Any money you throw at the problem is completely wasted and only staves off the inevitable. Instead of preserving the status quo, we should be putting our chips behind new opportunities. Why couldn't we be the leaders in alternative energy? I hear lots of really good ideas out there. Let's get them funded and accelerate their trip to the market!

I hope the folks in Washington, including our new President, pull themselves together and focus on the problem instead of each other.

X2!


I do not believe this is cyclical in nature; in any respect whatsoever. I believe this is a unique hit. A rebound will occur through new ideas. To get the world there though will take some semblance of propping up what we have now to bridge to a future state. We cannot scrap what is in place ie. let big auto simply fail and expect to make it to a new sustainable state. If people cannot spend, there is no reason to produce.

I think there will a rebound of sorts. People will regain confidence and be willing to extend. I think that this mess will take a lot of time to sort through and a lot of people will be very hurt in the process.

[chadster2]

I think that in the 1930s there were happy families, men with good jobs, and free time of the
sort we all live for today. We just never hear about that side of the great depression. Not everybody
was broke hungry and homeless…..
Just for fun though, to keep it light, take a=6 b=12 c=18 d=24….. (6 is the humanistic #, 7 is the saintly #)
Replace computer with #s and add it up
Also take the home of the worlds fanatical computer New York City and interchange #s and letters
Add it up…. Funny?
Look at who we are at war with, what part of the world history it has always played.
I don’t think we will ever go back to the way it was. Those that can adjust will have it made,
Those that keep trying to do it the old way will get left behind. I can see a time where this
Government will collapse under its own weight…. “A little change is good”..
So to stick to the thread
I think we are on the ride of a life time, good or bad, it just depends on wither you call it
Thrilling or you call it terrifying. I think it’s like birth pangs and these things will happen
More and more often until there an’t no going back. If the government keeps trying to
Fix everything, and it will, it will go broke. ~5-15 years. (it’s already broke we just don’t
Know it). All the money we put into this war could have been used to make us energy independant.

[chadster2]

sorry, I went over the top again.

[whitlock87]

I work for a Manufacturing Company based out of Orange county California.
Back in 2003, we started to do 10% of our manufacturing in China. We did this to help use compete in the market. We now have moved 95% of our manufacturing to China, and our profits are still down by about 25% compared to last year. The really bad thing is that we had to move that much of manufacturing to China just to pay the bills. This meant we ended giving 65 people layoff notices. They where all making around $20. Per hour. None of these people had higher education, they where just labors. I have kept in contact with a few, and its about a 50 /50 split on the ones that got jobs, and the others decided to use up there unemployment. No one was able to get a job anywhere close to what they where making with us.

[Jeffe]

I design/engineer dust collection systems, spray booths, industrial ventilation, etc... & have seen a small slow down in my industry, mainly in the wood market. People are not building houses anymore so nobody's making cabinets, etc...This has flooded the market with a lot of used equipment & day laborers, but not much else.

Its a good thing that Orange County & the rest of SoCal is so strict on pollution control. I have had so many new jobs due to AQMD, OSHA, & city regulations. Also the fire last Feb at the Imperial Sugar factory has really lit a fire under OSHA & NFPA to regulate dust control...All good for me

Like everyone else said things will pick up once they reset themselves & Obama brings his "change"

[knelems]

Hi Dom,
We have sold four boats this Nov. and didn't sell any last Nov. Our neighbors house sold for a little over a million back in Sept. but most lake houses are still sitting for sale. There are still buyers out there but just not as many in years past, I'm not sure the boat business will ever see the boom it had in years past. I read in the paper today that our state AL is considered one of the 30 states in a recession, even though our housing situation seems to be fine compared to NV,CA,FL, & Atlanta markets. Most of our customers and friends businesses seem to be off but a few are booming just like around the US. My biggest concern is what about all the non current new boats out there, we have a dealer in our area with 31 new 07 Supra/Moomba/Centurions. I think our industry will have the bargain shoppers with plenty to choose from or those buying or ordering brand new 09 boats.We are thinking positive and upbeat heading into our boat show season.

[mneal]

I worked for Ford in 2000 as manufacturing engineer and the unions were a HUGE issue IMO. I had guys that dragged butt on the time studies and I never saw them past 11 am. (when the line built XYZ units they left and got 8 hrs pay). I had a guy in my plant that was 20 yr employee that his job was to babysit a fully automated injection molding press. He showed up every day with folding tri lawn chair lounge , about 4 newspapers and ice chest. He would sit by the machine and read and eventuality nap every day. If the machine faulted alarms would wake him up. He earned way into 6 figures with his tenure as UAW for literally sleeping every day. He was quite proud of his easy street he created for himself. Should it hurt my feelings if he cant sleep he was to ~150k a year any more? It does not. I goto work everyday and feel as if I put forth decent effort in order to earn my salary and expect the same of others. I was there on a Saturday (for free because I was salary) and cleaned a dirty window on the ultrasonic welder and got grieved, because I took somebody's work from them. Why did they not get docked pay for not cleaning it? Instead they got a free 8hrs pay. That is just some of the things I saw, it was everywhere, just chocking the life out of the industry. I realize people used to die every year on factory floors from poor working conditions back in the day and unions were necessary at one time, but like anything moderation is the key and the pendulum is on the other side now. No way you can have that many people working that way for very long and make it competing against other companies that don't. Do I think Jap stuff is engineered better? You betcha. Does that hurt my feelings to say that, you better believe it.

[whitlock87]

I worked for Ford in 2000 as manufacturing engineer and the unions were a HUGE issue IMO. I had guys that dragged butt on the time studies and I never saw them past 11 am. (when the line built XYZ units they left and got 8 hrs pay). I had a guy in my plant that was 20 yr employee that his job was to babysit a fully automated injection molding press. He showed up every day with folding tri lawn chair lounge , about 4 newspapers and ice chest. He would sit by the machine and read and eventuality nap every day. If the machine faulted alarms would wake him up. He earned way into 6 figures with his tenure as UAW for literally sleeping every day. He was quite proud of his easy street he created for himself. Should it hurt my feelings if he cant sleep he was to ~150k a year any more? It does not. I goto work everyday and feel as if I put forth decent effort in order to earn my salary and expect the same of others. I was there on a Saturday (for free because I was salary) and cleaned a dirty window on the ultrasonic welder and got grieved, because I took somebody's work from them. Why did they not get docked pay for not cleaning it? Instead they got a free 8hrs pay. That is just some of the things I saw, it was everywhere, just chocking the life out of the industry. I realize people used to die every year on factory floors from poor working conditions back in the day and unions were necessary at one time, but like anything moderation is the key and the pendulum is on the other side now. No way you can have that many people working that way for very long and make it competing against other companies that don't. Do I think Jap stuff is engineered better? You betcha. Does that hurt my feelings to say that, you better believe it.

I do agree with you on this.
But at the same time, I feel for the people that use to living on more money then they where worth. So now, they will have a hard reality check.