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**Ruune** · 01-26-2004, 06:44 PM

And I believe the TAPS "wakeplate" gets drug behind the boat? Please explain?

TAPS is actually a trim tab, which is attached to the boat. Basically, its an adjustable extension of the hull- nothing hangs down, nor is it dragged behind the boat.

They also state that due to the weight of the boat (heavy) it is unnecessary to add ballast tanks or bags.

wake size and shape are going to be personal preference, and usually based on rider skill level. You dont want newer riders hitting weighted TAPS tuned wakes. Plus it's better to learn to clear wake to wake on a smaller one, to get the basics down.

now you come to market with this? What are we to think?

The main reason for this is market pressure. Tigé sells itself as an innovative company, and being as such they have to stay at or ahead of the curve. I've driven a '97 pre 2105WT (not sure about the model number), and '03 22v, and an '04 22v. Personally I can tell a diff between all three stringer designs- in that how solid the hull feels. Whether or not your old boat is a "piece," more or less depends on how you take care of it- just because you dont have the latest and greatest doesnt mean that the previous years' models are worthless. Honestly, some of the best wakes I've seen are old SN2001s, and they've got plenty of wood!

Put simply, manufacturers have to keep up with the market or get left behind. This is simple marketing- look at the car industry... not to mention the computer industry!

**BC06** · 01-26-2004, 06:50 PM

Tony,

I don't work for Tige but I'd like to give you my thoughts on your post.

1. I agree that there are some conflicting inferences to their wakes. I believe their intent is that TAPS/convex hull allows for usable slalom wakes and substantial board wakes without adding ballast; you can choose to add ballast for circus tricks but you don't have to. I'm pretty sure that has as much to do with hull shape as it does weight. That is huge for me because my last boat required hundreds of pounds of ballast to make even miniscule wakes. I am very happy that I don't have to deal with water pumps, lead, or a wedge in order to have a versatile towboat.

2. Tige used wood since the company's inception. All of the reasons for using wood are still valid. They recently incorporated a brand new composite that they think works even better. Nike uses air pockets, Asics uses gel, New Balance uses foam and there are runners from each camp willing to swear theirs is the best. Who knows? Regardless, Tige backs their hulls with a pretty good warranty.

This probably doesn't make you feel any better about your questions. I have noticed the same inconsistencies in their marketing but feel Tige still fits my needs.

Good luck.

**aneal000** · 01-26-2004, 07:18 PM

Ruune, thanks for taking the time to respond, but your comments also make very little sense, you must of attended the same marketing school the guys at Tige went to.

You state that the TAPS is an extenstion of the hull but yet it does not get drug behind the boat? Well since the hull ends at the transom and this attaches to the transom I am very much confused with your comment. It is quite apparent that is a type of "Drag hardware".

I agree with your second comment about wake size and shape being personal preference and that you want a new boarder to learn on smaller wakes, however if you look at the chart that Tige publishes they tell you unless you are doing the best of the best tricks that it is unnecessary to even put the taps system in the full wakeboard mode, much less add additional ballast! This is crazy talk I'll tell you! You find me any wakeboard school that teaches you to go learn a backroll, tantrum, whatever it is you want to learn (beyond the basics) and use a small wake to do it. It goes against everything our sport is about. You don't hit small wakes. You hit big ones. Why would you not trim the TAPS system to full wakeboard when you were trying a scarecrow? Because you are not ready for that big of a wake? Give me a break!

Once again you lost me on your third comment. You state that Tige has removed the wood from their boats to stay ahead of the other manufactures. And this is driven by market pressure and the fact that Tige is an innovative company? But isin't Tige the last manufacture (in the inboard market) to remove the wood? How is this innovative or staying ahead of the curve?

"Honestly, some of the best wakes I've seen are old SN2001s, and they've got plenty of wood!" ... so should we think that since a boat, in your honest opinion has wood and a good wake that it is good? Then that would mean that the new Tige's have poor wakes in your opinion? Again you are just as confusing as Tige.

Then your last statement contradicts your previous, "manufactures have to keep up or get left behind" so Tige was getting left behind? They only changed to keep up, it had nothing to do with the fact that they couldn't get people to understand that wood was better than fiberglass, or is it? Once again I am still confused...

Thanks for your attempt!

**Nautiques** · 01-26-2004, 08:55 PM

Aneal,
I have to agree with you. I talked to a tige rep this past weekend. He told me that people don't like dealing with pumping water in and out of the boat, etc. If they don't then why don't you stop offering it? They also gave me the whole story about not needing ballast. In my eye, it should be presented that "our wakes are big with the use of TAPS but for those of you wanting bigger wakes, we offer additional ballast tanks" or something of that nature. And to hit this again, they didn't just have 2 or 3 tanks in the boat but they had 4.
I also didn't like the no option for locks on the trunk and the bifold door in the 22v that I looked at. That was pretty cheap looking. The guy also let the cat out of the box about the quality of the carpet.
I don't agree with the approach to the warranty either. They claim that they have never had a failure which is great but.... They have only been building boats since 1991. There are boats that were built in the 80's that are just now starting to show problems with bad stringers. If they get through it without any problems, that is great and I give them credit for it but I think it is a little too soon to make statements like that and have them be valid.

Just for knowledge, I do not work for correct craft or any of its dealers!

**Domsz06** · 01-26-2004, 09:40 PM

The warrenty is awesome on tige's, I mean if my hull goes bad, they not only give me a new boat, but also 10 grand in cash, how could I go wrong with that. Right they are a new company, but i signed the papers and now have the warranty so who cares.

Part of Tige's problem is that they are just now advertising. I mean I had never heard of one till a friend bought one. Then I started looking. They DON"T advertise. So now they are trying to advertise and they mess up. Who cares. The way I look at is that they have a nice boat. They thought that word of mouth alone would carry them, but now they want more of the market so they are trying to advertise. They will work the kinks out.

Everyone is entitled to think what they want, that's what living in America is all about. Who gives two flips about the advertising, if you have the cash, go and drive the boat's, and try them out. Then buy the one you like. Don't be influenced by someone else's words, just make up your own mind.

As for the wake size and stuff, I have been beside a mastercraft, my tige and a wakesetter. I don't know what weight the other boats had in theirs, but mine was just as big if not bigger and I had no weight in it. I know they had weight in theirs because I saw them pumping it out.

Anyway, I don't read the ads, so I Have no idea what your talking about, just giving my .02 and stepping off my soapbox now.

Dom

**Domsz06** · 01-26-2004, 09:44 PM

Oh yeah,

hull design does make a difference in wakes, simple physics will you tell you that. Tige has designed boats so that you can ski, and wakeboard. I think that is awesome. I know the wake is nice on skiing as well as boarding. From what my second father says(Hi wayne) the tige has just a nice o wake as a malibu, but the malibu is just a touch softer. So it all just comes back down to test drive and personal preferance. Me, i went with the tige for the warrenty, and the deal I got. FOr you, well that's your own decision. I plan on keeping my boat till it's way old(don't have the money to buy another one, I'm just a student), so that's why I bought mine

Dom

**spooner** · 01-26-2004, 10:05 PM

to me there is a big differenc between a wedge and a trim tab. the wedge hangs more than a foot below the bottom of the hull and is fairly heavy. taps adjusts the heigth of the bow in turn makeing the stern sit lower in the water giving more wake

**aneal000** · 01-26-2004, 10:06 PM

dom... I'm not trying to bash anyone here. Customers or Tige, I am just wondering what they are trying to do, what direction they are trying to take. Your comments about them not advertising? I have seen them in Waterski mag for as far back as I can remember... Maybe they weren't advertising?

So if you say they are trying something new (ie advertising) and since it is new for them it is ok to screw it up? You think that is the same approach they let their engineers take when designing their boats, what about the guys building them... oh, don't yell at John, it's ok for him to screw it up, it is new to him! "So what!" is your answer! It scares me that if Tige puts that kind of effort into their advertising then what are they putting into their boats. Last time I checked a company is made up of all of the employees. Remember the team?

I don't know what they are thinking or the direction they are trying to go. I see the same ads that everyone else sees. You would be a fool to argue that advertising dosen't work. You can't or don't read the ads, well ok. Everyone else does, and with confusing ads, confusing and contradicting sales stratigies, and ads that don't make sense is a sure fire way NOT to gain market share. And I don't think that is what they are trying to do. So I ask one more time for some clarification. Thanks!

**spooner** · 01-26-2004, 10:14 PM

it is also my understanding that the new replacement composite is better than wood,fiberglass,or hollow stringers that other companys use.

**aneal000** · 01-26-2004, 10:16 PM

spooner, I'll agree there is a big difference between a wedge and the TAPS. I never tried to compare the two. Only thing I said was that tige is saying they don't need "Drag Hardware" when they have a piece of metal that they drag around every lake are river they are put on! Would you say that it is not drag hardware because it is not under the water? What about a tuber? You drag tubers around behind the boat and they are on top of the water? All I am saying is Tige ads are very confusing to the general public.

**spooner** · 01-26-2004, 10:22 PM

lets agree to disagree. dont just read the ads. drive the boat on your lake. ride the wake and make your decision. i did this and chose tige because of the rough water we frequently deal with.

**Domsz06** · 01-26-2004, 10:46 PM

aneal,

I'm not trying to argue. I'm just stating what I feel about tige, we do live in america, so I can do that. As for taps, they are not dragged behind the boat. they are attached to the hull and pushed down. To me dragged is something like a wakeboarder, dragged. As far as your comments on engineers, I do believe engineers make what is a prototype, and well, those do fail, you don't learn with out failure. As for advertising, they just brainstorm and go out and try what they think will work. I have taken classes in both, and am now working on my engineering degree. Stuff failes, that's the whole point of life. Tige is trying something new, it's not working. Accept it. I agree with spooner, get out, try the boat and get what you like. I bought tige because of the deal, the ride, the price, the wake, and I liked it. If you buy one great, if you buy a x-10, great, at least we can all get out and enjoy gods gift to earth of water. So get what you like, and go have fun.

**Ruune** · 01-26-2004, 10:50 PM

my apologies... I was trying to communicate this AM through the fog otherwise known as Tussinex (robitussin w/ hydrocodone and other goodies) and antihistamines...

Lets see if I can put what I was trying to say in to english this time...

Drag hardware- my impression of this is an object permanently fixed to the boat (adjustable or not), which hangs below the hull in an effort to increase hydrodynamic drag. While you are "dragging" a tuber, and this same tuber is going to increase hydrodynamic drag, the tube is not permanently attached to the boat. Additionally, I wouldnt necessarily call a tube "hardware." It is also my belief that Tigé is directly addressing the wedge with this marketing campaign.

Regarding them being the last ones to switch from wood, they are actually the only ones using the Penske Xtreme composites. They are also the first (to my knowledge) to cure the main parts of the hull together, in order to increase strength.

My comment regarding the older SN2001s wasnt intended to say that newer boats have inferior wakes- I was trying to illustrate that stringer material doesnt have an effect on wake performance. Only strength. It could be argued that a stronger hull will support heavier ballast, but thats outside the scope of what I was trying to say.

About ballast- I do agree with you re: the way they advertise about not needing ballast, then going on to say that you can do all these tricks with different setting seems a bit excessive. Personally, I dont think that TAPS makes a vast difference in the size of the wake- only shape. Also, WHEN you're running ballast, it's awesome for controlling porpoising. This being said, I feel that they should have addressed that as an advantage instead... since I have yet to see anyone w/ TAPS pull a wakeboarder with it set anything lower than the highest.

lets agree to disagree. dont just read the ads.

Amen to that! Marketing people (in general) tend to sensationalize product features. Its what they were trained to do, and is what they are paid to do.

**Nautiques** · 01-26-2004, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by domslude
aneal,

Stuff failes, that's the whole point of life. Tige is trying something new, it's not working. Accept it.

Enough said!

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