Just getting in to boating. Need some guidance on boats.

[Dustycoyote]

Hello all,
Truly a newbie here. I've maybe been on a power boat a dozen times in my life but my wife just told me that she'd like to get a boat. Please forgive my lack of understanding of boats in general as I ask my questions here. Also, I'm about to write a novel here. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read the whole book. Very much appreciate any help you all have for me.

I've gotten some info from*a few of my friends who are boat owners. They each have different thoughts but there are a couple things that have been consistent in what they've told me. I wanted to lay out my situation and thoughts here and get some advice and guidance*from the community.

First,* my buddies have all told me to get a surf boat. They've each independently said that it's the best family experience and will be what my kids will most likely enjoy the most. Having said that, they have also said that I also want a boat that we could ski or wakeboard behind as well. My personal expectation is that we'll primarily surf and pull a tube. I dont know for sure but that is what I'm targeting for the boat.*

I was also told that a better boat that creates a better wake is not just for expert level surfers but that it is maybe even more important*for beginners as it is much easier to get up and then to learn on.*

So I started checking out surf boats... I was shocked (like, go in the other room and check my drawers shocked), at the cost of a good surfing boat!! I'd hoped to get into this at about 30K but wanted to make sure that I was basing my price point on reality rather than just a number I came up with.

3 of my friends own relatively new boats but one of them owns a 2002 so I called him asking how to do this on a budget.*He told me that it's doable but there are some big compromises to make it work. He said that his next boat will be different and, because his family is so in to it, he will sacrifice to spend some money for an upgrade in the next few years.

I asked each of them then, keeping in mind that I'm not made of money and would like to do this in the most intelligently conservative way possible,*what year I should set as maybe the oldest boat I should consider. They each*gave me a*different, but similar year ranging from 2011 to 2015. All of them consistently said that it can be done with earlier boats but that the current surf technology was developed in one of those years. They also said that buying a good boat from those years would really get me the technology that is being built into today's boats. It keeps getting refined but hasn't really changed since then.*

We have 3 kids 15 and under. We live in Utah so it will be all lake and reservoir boating. May include both big and small lakes.*

So, after that big intro.... I'll ask some specific questions and lay out my considerations but I also ask for any general info that anyone may think I need or would be helpful. All of my questions ultimately roll up to one single question, "What boats should I look at to be as budget minded as possible (60k or less for sure) but get the a good experience for my family, and in a boat that I'm not going to want to upgrade from in the next several years"....

My thoughts and questions...

1. I had originally been interested in an Avalanche based on online comments that it makes a great wake, but*I dont want to have to add weights and ballast manually and would prefer not to have to add any wake creating devices by hand to the boat*to get a good wake. I'd like the surfability to be as automated as possible. When I go boating I want to boat, not manage the boat... I assume that this is why my friends told me to go with a newer boat from a minimum years I listed. (Any consensus on an oldest year to consider?)

2. I dont need high luxury but I do value*good build quality and reliability. I dont want popping seams, engine problems, or electronics issues being a big part of my boating experience.*I dont know whether to look at the main brands or one of the value focused brands. Using centurion as an example, I wonder about the difference between Centurion and Supreme. Is the build quality and surf system just as good but the boat just isnt as nice and luxurious? Or is there a better build quality and usability in the upper lines? For example, would I be better served buying a 2012 Enzo or a 2015 Supreme? I know this is a brand-specific forum, but similarly, should I consider Moomba, Axxis, even Heyday instead of older Mailbu/Centurian/MC/Nautica/Tige?

3. In reading about wake quality I've developed an personal perception of wake quality and overall in the different brands. I want to validate correct my view. Please correct or comment on the following;

Super Nautique - I've been told this is the gold standard. The wake is huge and long but it is also steep so it really is only the gold standard for expert surfers. For other surfers the gold standard is maybe Tige or Centurion???

Centurian/Supreme - hull shape makes a great wake with less ballast than other brands. Wake great quality and is easy to surf. Is there a difference in wake quality between the two?

Malibu/Axis - seem like, at least in the older years, they seemed to be more focused on wakeboarding. Are they as good as the centurion lines now for surfing? Value?

Tige - Have read that, similar to Centurion, they have a deep hull design that makes a great wake. Have heard that it is a much better wake on the goofy side than the Centurion.*

Mastercraft - thoughts? Is the X series as good for surfing as others mentioned here?**Is the NXT a good option?

Moomba - seems like a great value and I've read great things about the surfability. Any other concerns or considerations?

Heyday - Great value. Seems to be a newer and not mainstream brand but seems to rate well on wake. The places I've read say that the wake isnt as good as the top boats though.. anyone have any experience? Is the layout od the boat a good place for the family to hang out? One of my friends almost bought one of these. Resale value?

Yamaha - my wife likes these but they dont really seem to be made for surfing. Correct? I haven't really been considering these for that reason.

Are all of these boats usable for wakeboarding and skiing or do some compromise those aspects more than others?**

Lastly,*
Any advice on buying? Best time to buy? How to get the best deal?

As I look at listings for boats, it seems that the cost to buy one of the*value brands vs the*main brands seems to converge on the 2012 to 2015 years.it seems like there may only be a 10 grand and 1 model year* difference to buy a centurian vs a supreme for example. Am I seeing that wrong? Thoughts on this?
Again

, thanks for any help.

Happy boating all!

[UNSTUCK]

We did just the same as you. One day my wife and our 3 kids decided to get a boat. I knew nothing about them. Found a 2000 Tige 21v in Reno that fit our budget and just went for it. Had no idea what we were getting ourselves into. It worked out great. We used it for surfing 99% of the time and really couldn't have been happier. Being from Utah you need to know how our elevation kills the HP in our boats. It really makes a difference. If you can, find boats in your range that have the bigger motor options. Be ready to reprop most boats that aren't already Utah boats. KSL has lots of good boats all the time.

This could be a good one: https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/56232315
You could easily get the entire thing reupholstered and stay in your $30k budget.

Or this one: https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/57228558
Lot less hours and looks to be pretty clean.

Either one of these would be great starter boats. If you keep them clean and nice their value wont drop much, if at all in the next couple years. So if you decide you hate boating you won't loose much. Or if you decide you want something newer you'll make out just fine.

[JohnnieMo]

Your are approaching everything well and I think you already have a handle on a lot of things.

I can't speak much for the other brands, but if you want an out of the box, automatic wake, you need to look at 2016 or newer with Tige. Everything prior to that would require an add on suck gate, or listing the boat. Both of which are a bit of a hassle. However if you're like me, you would be willing to accept a bit of hassle in order to save $50,000. In that case you can slap a suck gate on to any Tige going back to the 90's and have a surf-able wake. (a suck gate is a suction cup that attaches to the opposite side of the boat to where you are surfing)

All other brands will have this similar limitation with a slight variation on years.

In your price band I would look at a Tige in the 2009 to 2014 range that meets your criteria. Those are all terrific boats, and will have varying levels of wear. I personally would stay newer than 2009 to keep into the Alpha Z or newer towers.

Tige doesn't build a bad boat. Sure there can be lemons out there, but every boat will surf.

I don't think there is big variation between the brands for quality of surfing. I think it comes down more to your dealer support (you WILL have problems) and then the specific boat you are looking at.

I'll also pretty much guarantee you will need to save money after the buy to do things like boards, ballast, pumps etc. You will need more stuff to refine the wave to your liking and find boards that work for your family. BOAT stands for Bring Out Another Thousand.

[akdoc]

I think the only boat you may be able to get for 60k with an automated surf system would be a 2013 Malibu.. I believe Malibu was the first to introduce the surf systems in their boats therefore that may be your best bet if you must have the automated surf system.

[SONIC]

I think the only boat you may be able to get for 60k with an automated surf system would be a 2013 Malibu.. I believe Malibu was the first to introduce the surf systems in their boats therefore that may be your best bet if you must have the automated surf system.

If you're the least bit handy you can buy an older boat in great shape and then slap a Go Surf Assist kit on it for 4k. Or an infinity wave kit for less than that. The automated surf setup isn't a del breaker imo if you can save 10-15k on a nice boat without it and then drop 4k right after purchase for a setup. You're still 6k+ ahead and ahead of all the boats that have the older ready to surf setups.
Just imo.

If it were me and I were doing it again, I'd go for a boat around 2010-2012 when the currentish generation of deep surf hulls came out, and add a GSA system to it and integrate more ballast. Then you're basically at the level of a new boat (minus some blingy tech, which imo is a good thing).

[SONIC]

Also you might ask this question over on wakegarage.com

More variety of boats represented.

[UNSTUCK]

If I had $60k to spend I'd be looking at a Moomba. That would get you a year old boat or come boat show maybe even a new Max. That would be a killer first boat.

[Zackdogg]

Was gonna say the same thing as Unstuck. I’d look for a year old Moomba, if I wanted to spend $60k. Sure there’s some warranty left, pretty damn close to the newest tech, look like they throw a nice wake and wave.


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[sandm]

wow. good post and a TON of questions in that.

I'll just say that I had about 60k to spend(not sure how that number came up here but I'll run with it) and bought a 2014 z3 for 64k with upgraded ballast already and a huge stereo. only 125hrs on it. bought last september. no warranty and not the current surf tech but a proven hull that with gsa would be a fantastic hull. there was another one here in vegas for 59 that ended up selling for 56 with 135hrs on the clock. there's deals out there and now is a good time to start looking.
I do still miss my 22ve and those or the rz2 variant can be had in the 2010-2013 range for 45-65k and would be a great choice.

based on what you want a boat to do I think 30k is going to be a tough find and opening up the wallet into the 50-60k range will net you a much better surf hull in a newer boat.

all imo and whatever you purchase good luck...

[Bamer]

1) take a boaters safety course....last thing you want is to kill someone. I’m not kidding ether, I see dumb a$$ people almost every weekend. I’ve seen a guy drown on a boat just 2 boats away while tied up at party cove.

2) boat stands for bust out another thousand, so be prepared to spend some coin for boards, jackets, prop, etc....I’d say figure to spend at least 3k in the first year and then 1k a year in misc crap + maintenance + fuel + insurance + storage

3) boats if kept in good shape do not depreciate like cars. You can buy a 2010-2014 today, run it for say 3 summers and likely sell it for 1-2k less than you paid for it. If you get a good deal, you might sell it for the as you paid. Again key here is kept in good shape. I’d set the expectation with the wife that you might plan to upgrade in 3years after you learn what you like n don’t like. You will learn a ton the first 2years.

4) visit your local dealer and fill them out about dealer support. Ideally you will buy a used (insert brand) from a (insert same brand ) local dealer. You mostly will get better service, especially if you key them into your 3yr plan to upgrade.

5) scope out the lake(s) you plan to frequent. Buy a paper lake map and study it for shallow areas and trees or other hidden objects. Make sure the areas of the map you plan to surf are at least 15ft deep. The wave will be degraded if less than 15 and will go away less than 10ft.

6) if you get an inboard, get a spare prop. The props on inboards are made from a softer metal so if you hit something the prop absorbs most of the energy in an attempt to protect the rest of the drive train.

7) I echo the moomba max, I believe it was first released in 2018? You might can find one in the 60’s

8) don’t tube! It will make soo much much more work you. Plus it will be a crutch for you gets kids to not try surfing or wakeboarding. I put our tub away this summer and my 6yr old is now hooked on wakeboarding.

9) look up Wake9 videos on YouTube, specifically the polar bear reviews. Very informative for newbies.

10) lead...seems like , based on all my internet reading that almost every boats surf wave will greatly benefit from 400-900lbs of lead. See polar bear reviews as a source. It costs ~$1 / lb.....so....$$$

11) create a test drive checklist prior to your test drive and step through it on the water n at the ramp

12) before you buy it, get in that brands forum and study that model...does it have issues, what does it take to surf? Etc....






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[GregVH]

I didn't see where you were located but the Colorado River Lakes in Texas had their so call 500 year record flood on October 16, 2018, many boat lost and damaged in the flood. Many have been rebuilt, some good and some bad. Just a caution if you are in Texas, and thinking about buy used, make sure you know or ask history. Many people are repairing and after the damage of homes etc., many are selling homes and boats and moving out. Just be careful that is an option here locally.

[MikeB313]

I think the only boat you may be able to get for 60k with an automated surf system would be a 2013 Malibu.. I believe Malibu was the first to introduce the surf systems in their boats therefore that may be your best bet if you must have the automated surf system.

You can get new/slightly used R20s and R21s for under $60K with TAPS3 and factory warranty still.

[Dustycoyote]

what is TAPS3? I assume that is their surf management/automation system???

I haven't looked at the Tige R line really. Are those good surf boats?

[UNSTUCK]

Taps 3 is tiges first generation surf tab system. It was replaced this year with their newest system. Works good right out of the box on the R boats.

[Dustycoyote]

thanks ot everyone for all of the answers and info.

In response and addition to all of the answers....

A couple of you have mentioned "GSA". What is that?

to those who mentioned posting on Wakeworld, I actually tried to but can't get a login created for some reason. I have this posted here and on the Centurion forums as well.


Per a couple of the responses, I still wouldn't mind getting an older boat to help save money but only if I could have the surf automation/management systems added to it for a reasonable cost so that I don't have to "manage" our boating experience rather than enjoy it. I don't think I need touchscreen, etc. etc. and other premium tech that seems to set the premium lines apart from the value lines (again, tell me if I'm wrong), as long as I can create a good wake without turning the boat on its side and that I can change the wake back and forth and "tune" from the driver seat. (I know that "tuning" is a subjective term...)

When I say manage it I mean that I don't want to have to stop the boat and manually move ballast around then move equipment from one side of the boat to the other in between each surfers turn in the water becuase one is goofy and the next may not be. Or becuase someone was surfing and then someone wants to wakeboard. Maybe I'm wrong (again, I'm totally new to this, so correct me as needed) but that seems like a big pain and like it would affect overall enjoyment and experience for everyone. I definitely don't want ballast laying around in the boat.

If I can get an older boat (I continually see people refer to the Avalanche as the best surf boat prior to like 2012...) and add those systems to it but that saves me 15 grand then I'm all in! In all of my reading though, it seems like there are always caveats to going that route. If could do this for less than 60K then I would really like to, but if everyone were to tell me that the family is just going to have a way better experience if I spend the extra money, then it's worth it to me. I'm blessed that I can even consider spending that money if warranted ( I know not everyone can...).

Speaking of the older boats, it seems like almost all boats I read about before 2016 or so (that aren't ridiculously expensive) don't do goofy side wakes well. Or at least without a lot of effort and "management" during the surf day. Are there any that do both sides well in my price range/age that I don't need to list extremely and that can be done through the automated ballast and surf system?? ( I don't mind adding an after market ballast or surf system if it makes sense financially and fits in the boat without impeding on other stuff...)

To the person who saw the Z3 for 56K, that would be great. Where should I look for good deals on boats? I've been looking on KSL and on OnlyIboards but am a little handicapped because I don't know boats. I have no idea what a good deal is or not when I'm looking through them. I am especially handicapped because I don't know what to look for on the boat listing (Lots of boats seem to come with surf and gate systems as options but they are really needed for the boat to do well in surfing, etc..)

To those who recommended the Moombas, My research has kind of started leading me to the idea that I really need to be looking at the Moomba and other value brands such as MB/Supreme/Axis, etc. etc.
The problem I keep running into is that I'll find a model that seems promising (Like say a Supreme S238 or S226) and that seems to be in a 50K price range for 2015 to 2017 or so and then as I start to look farther into forum talk on that model I find that it has a great wakeboard wake but marginal surf, or doesn't do a good wake for the goofy side, or some other bummer compromise. I'll find lots of other people claiming they get 35 foot surf wakes on both sides off of that same boat, but then after reading farther into it I find that they only got that great wake because they added 4 tons of lead and their wife's dead grandmothers corpse to the back, rare shark fins from the orient strapped to the sides, and a vudu priest and 70 pounds of gold hidden under the bow seats....

Like I stated in the post above, I haven't really seen much on the Tige R series yet. I'm listing here a bunch of boats that have seemed interesting in one way or another in case anyone has any input or insight on some of them...

An Avalanche - Good reviews and can get on a budget but would need to understand what I would need to add to it after the fact. Also don't understand what it's not going to be good at really. Would I be giving up a lot compared to newer boats, even after adding surf tech to it? would it ever surf as well as others that I could consider??

Heyday WT2 or WT Surf - this one is intriguing. Nervous about it being an off-brand. It's ugly. Would it limit me in being able to wakeboard or Ski??

MB WB 23 with LS3 - this one seems like it may be hard to find but is well reviewed??

Supreme S226 or S238 - these seem like good values but have seen some reviews that say they throw marginal surfing wakes?? especially on Goofy? I have two friends with S226 boats who say they love them. (i haven't been out with either but am scheduling a weekend with one to try it out.)

Tiges seem to get some good reviews but seem pricey. I haven't really seen much on the R series boats though. Mostly I've run across people talking about the Z1, Z3, with the VX hull.

Centurion SV230/233/240/244 - all seem good but have seen various comments stating that they don't surf well on goofy. The ones that don't end in a "0" seem to be out of my price range? I understand that something called CATS was introduced in 2014 and that seemed to improve the surfability for these boats. I assume I'd need to look for that on any Centurion boat I considered? Is CATS also on Supremes??

Moomba Mojo 2.5 - seems good but is the surf system manual? are all manual systems a pain? Seems like, at lest in the 2015 time frame, people saw Supreme as a better surf boat and Moomba as a better wakeboarder??

Mastercraft X30 or X46 - seem to be good but because of price I would be pushed into an old enough year that it wouldn't be good for surfing?

Axis A24 - lots of good and bad written about Axis for surfing. not sure what to think...




A couple points that I read that seem logical

Seems I should look for a bigger boat if I have room for it. Just like the deep hull, it seems that a bigger boat naturally displaces more water and creates a deeper wake?? ... I have room for it

I live at highaltitude so I've been told that I need a motor with a lot of power, preferrably something with 400HP or more. I assume that torque really matters more than HP but that they largely run hand in hand for boat motors???