ATX Photo Leaked

[Germaine Marine]

At least that’s a decision each owner could make. Why wouldn’t you just put hard tanks in a deep hull boat, and let people opt for PnP, if they want. Or are we just going back to 2000 and filling bags all over our floor and seats? Why would you want to give up storage, for ballast when I have to assume there’s dead space under the floor anyways?? There has to be something I’m not realizing.


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But not even Tige is using hard tanks... Do you mean a floor? Tiges subfloor ballast is bags.

[chpthril]

Sacs or hard tanks below floor is really splitting heirs and not the point of the questions.

[Zackdogg]

Well for one.. you have a bad taste in your mouth for lack of power. Cant say I blame you but you really should go drive something with the 2-1 before you axe it out of the equation. I have ran a 400 rzx2 at pine view full ballast and about 1000lbs in lead. I believe pineview is 6k feet. Again. No problems.

As for sub floor ballast? Yes that just means MFG are running a stepped floor in the rear to account for the bags. Want a floor in it? Expand your budget 25-30K and buy a tige. For me? Give me the crazy depth to the floor and let me make use of it how I want. Change to a crazy stupid rear bag? You can do that. Build a shelf on top of the bag? You can do that too. For me the stock weight was excellent, like more then excellent. Plenty of room to just toss jackets etc into the rear lockers and leave it.

You say the boat isn't for you, I would say make the quick trip down big dog and let me get you in one

I absolutely know that maybe I’m not being fair, and I’ll be the first to admit I’m wrong when I am. I’m also pretty decent at keeping an open mind about things... I’m just throwing stuff out there, for us to debate, ultimately. I really wanted to know what the advantage is for giving up space, but it sounds like you aren’t giving up space, is the answer. I was picturing it wrong in my head, I thought it was empty under the ballast, and the ballast was eating space.. the explanation you guys give me answers my question.. if I have as much, or more storage with ballast full, that makes plenty of sense to me..

I don’t understand the manufacturers that use bags over hard tanks, either way.. maybe there’s an answer, but I’ve had my bags replaced 3 times in the last year, no to mention who knows how much extra corrosion that I’ll be dealing with due to the leaky bags filling my bilge with water... maybe water sloshing in partially full tanks?? The cost difference can’t be much, and there must be something I’m not seeing, as obviously I’m not the first guy to think of this.

I want to be proved wrong, on that 400. I don’t think I’d ever buy one, without someone completely blowing me out of the water, with power, at like 7000’. Power will absolutely be the first thing I look at, on my next boat, only because it’s been the source of all of my frustration. I could deal with all analog everything, wood seats, go back to a fly-high, and all the rest before I’d ever even think about a boat that’s under, or even slightly struggles with power.. which I fully realize part of the problem is me loading everything to the max, and I’m probably outside of the norm, there.

I’ll be by, when I’m down there, which should be the next few months, as a good buddy is having a baby, and I haven’t been down in a few months. Whether you sell me a boat, or some GSA plates, is kinda on you at this point!!


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[Zackdogg]

Don't discount it just yet. If the under seat storage is knee deep, that is significant. That's where we store everything. One U shaped bow bag is fine with me. As for the 400... have you compared the HP/torque charts on the 400 and 440? They are almost identical until like 4500 RPM's when the 440 pulls away on HP. The only time my boat see's 4500 is empty cruising. No problem there. Put the 2:1 transmission behind the 400 and it just might work. Don't forget this boat is 1000 pounds lighter than the RZX. That will help more than anything. If the surf pictures I've seen so far are true to life stock ballast, this is good news. I could add 1000 in lead and it would probably be killer, all at the same weight I'm running now. The 440 is a $2000 upgrade if you feel you'll need it.

I agree, I was picturing a subfloor with ballast in the storage, not no subfloor, and ballast filling the bottom of the storage, that makes far more sense to me, than what I was picturing.

I haven’t looked at the Hp/Torque curves between those 2, and I’ll freely admit I’m wrong if someone shows me different with a 400 or 440 on that 2:1. As it stands today, I don’t know that I would consider a boat that moves this kind of weight, without a supercharger, but that’s just because of my experience, I haven’t been in a 2:1 boat. I run with a couple of G23s that are both supercharged, and they straight murder me. If the 2:1 really solves that, I’ll happily eat my words to save $15k, but it would have to be a legit demonstration of the capabilities of the smaller motors to change my mind..

I’ll happily go on an ATX demo, it sounds like they thought about the majority of my concerns. I’ve been on Axis’ I like ok, but not nearly as much as my boat, overall, and I’ve never seen one loaded up with what we carry on ours.

The only reason I said that about the 400 is I thought the 360(or whatever) and 400 were the only 2 engines available.. If I could get a budget boat, with a 575, and a killer wave, that’s probably speaking my language, even if I’m the minority. I’ve also never owned anything with a ford motor in my life, so I’ve probably wanted this motor to fail me since day one!! I almost didn’t buy a Tige because that’s how they are equipped. The Nautiques that slay me are all GMC, obviously!!



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[freeheel4life]

Zackdog, one major benefit of bags over tanks is replacement. Tanks occasionally fail. When tanks fail that are subfloor you have to split the boat. Just ask some MC x46 owners about. Dont tell anyone be we figured out how to do it without splitting the boat but you have to pull the engine, damn near everything in the bilge, and trim some glass. It sucks. If it was a bag with an access hatch subfloor it would have been a couple hours instead of 16 hours.

BTW the x46 tank fails were manufacturing process errors. They were trimming the excess carpet after it was glued to the tank and it would score the rotocast plastic. After a few flex cycles the score line opens up. It's one of my least favorite warranty jobs I've done in a while.

[Zackdogg]

Zackdog, one major benefit of bags over tanks is replacement. Tanks occasionally fail. When tanks fail that are subfloor you have to split the boat. Just ask some MC x46 owners about. Dont tell anyone be we figured out how to do it without splitting the boat but you have to pull the engine, damn near everything in the bilge, and trim some glass. It sucks. If it was a bag with an access hatch subfloor it would have been a couple hours instead of 16 hours.

BTW the x46 tank fails were manufacturing process errors. They were trimming the excess carpet after it was glued to the tank and it would score the rotocast plastic. After a few flex cycles the score line opens up. It's one of my least favorite warranty jobs I've done in a while.

I can on imagine that is an absolute nightmare. And I’ve thought, about what happens if a tank fails, in the past. I’m guessing I wouldn’t be on my 3rd set of tanks in a year, either way. You would think a company that manufactures tanks would know better, but I run across people that totally suck at their job on a daily basis. The answer at Zack Boats would be exactly that. Hard tanks that are accessible. I personally don’t see waterbed mattresses as the ultimate answer, but I also don’t have any R&D budget, so maybe there is something I’m not seeing. And that’s exactly why I ask these things, I truly want to know. I walk around, all day, every day, re-designing things. I’m right about some stuff, and I’m wrong about some, not really tallying which percentage is higher than the other, and maybe that’s for my ego. Just the way this ole brain functions. And me getting answers on some of this stuff helps with the re-design of whatever product I’m going to overthink next.


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[Zackdogg]

I was just messing with the boat builder, for the first time today. Looks like you can option it with a 575.. not sure if they’re adding stuff, or it was there the whole time, not really available or what..


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[UNSTUCK]

Website seems to be changing around a bit. I saw the blown motor earlier, but now the prices do not show up on the review list for the options chosen.
The 440 was showing as a $2k upgrade. That seemed like a good price if it also includes the 2:1 and I’m assuming a 17” wheel. The 460 was showing at $6k.

[Zackdogg]

I thought maybe that was the case. It sounded like they were only offering 360 and 400, earlier.. or maybe they’re watching this thread and taking our ideas?? [emoji848]

It’s gone from a hard no, to not a hard no, from this thread, but I wouldn’t bend on a 22ft. I’d have to see what the 24’ has going on..


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[Bruizza]

Zackdogg you definitely need to give the 2:1 transmission a test. I spent all day last Friday in the ATX. Before lunch we had 4 people and it surfed decent. Full ballast which I was told is 2,750lbs the boat did 31mph with the 400 engine 2:1 transmission and 4 people in the boat. I cut the throttle when it hit 31. I’m guessing it would have done 35+. I live in the Denver area so I can relate to your altitude concerns. After lunch we took a crew of 7 out. Wave was amazing! I didn’t do the speed test again but it didn’t struggle at all the entire day.

As for storage I can say for certain the ATX has more than the RZX2. They removed the “floor” that makes the ballast subfloor on the RZX2. So as mentioned earlier you get much deeper storage everywhere you don’t have a ballast bag. I was honestly blown away by the ATX and really liked the interior more than I thought I would. I sat down with my dealer and spec’d one out. In the end it was too tall to fit in my garage which is a dealbreaker.

[freeheel4life]

Its crazy to think how much the price is coming down on the ATX line while eliminating the subfloor. Sounds like the cost of the liner may have been a big part of driving up R series cost...just speculating

[Zackdogg]

Zackdogg you definitely need to give the 2:1 transmission a test. I spent all day last Friday in the ATX. Before lunch we had 4 people and it surfed decent. Full ballast which I was told is 2,750lbs the boat did 31mph with the 400 engine 2:1 transmission and 4 people in the boat. I cut the throttle when it hit 31. I’m guessing it would have done 35+. I live in the Denver area so I can relate to your altitude concerns. After lunch we took a crew of 7 out. Wave was amazing! I didn’t do the speed test again but it didn’t struggle at all the entire day.

As for storage I can say for certain the ATX has more than the RZX2. They removed the “floor” that makes the ballast subfloor on the RZX2. So as mentioned earlier you get much deeper storage everywhere you don’t have a ballast bag. I was honestly blown away by the ATX and really liked the interior more than I thought I would. I sat down with my dealer and spec’d one out. In the end it was too tall to fit in my garage which is a dealbreaker.

That’s good info! I need a trip on one at Tahoe, to be convinced, which may never happen, but maybe the Sac dealer will take one up there one day.. I just don’t know what would convince me otherwise. I literally can’t put a drop of ballast in my boat up there, between altitude and waves, it just won’t pass 13mph unless the lake is flat, which is until noon if you’re lucky, and I have less than maybe 6 people in there. I was up there last month, 9 people in the boat, no ballast, except some lead in the bow to help plane, got to Edgewood early while the lake was flat, and it was ok, coming back we had like 2’-3’ rollers, and had to cross the lake at 13mph because we couldn’t hit plane, and that’s with a 10.5” pitch prop. I have been on that lake in supercharged Gs, which there are probably close to 100 of them in there on any given day, and you can surf with full ballast, full crew all day long.. maybe the 2:1 makes that much difference, but I’d have to feel it to believe it, and really I’d love to be wrong about it.

I’m extremely happy with everything about my boat, except for the few things that I absolutely hate. Seems like the ballast bags are finally right. We can do almost anything at about 4000’ or lower, which we at least know why and know what we can do at different elevations now, where I spent all last summer trying to figure that out, and now we’re randomly going into limp mode, which hopefully will be resolved next week, and hopefully is just the stupid O2 sensors. We’ve had a great summer this year, and hopefully still have 3 months of it left.

We’ll get a new boat in the next few years.. there are 4 boats that I’d choose from today. Maybe the ATX will be on that list, by the time we decide to buy. Cost and what you get for that price factors out the G25 real quick, although I love that boat. By the time I’m done with this boat, I may be completely over Indmar powered stuff, which would make some decisions a bunch easier. The way the rest of this boat goes, will determine that real easily, for me. I’m sure as hell not driving around in limp mode for the rest of eternity!! I broke my own rules, and bought a first year model of the RZX, which I never do, and never will again.. I’ll be sitting back, watching what does what the next couple of years, before I buy anything, there are so many new technologies on all these boats in these couple of years we’re in right now, who knows what’s going to work, and not.


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[Zackdogg]

Zackdogg you definitely need to give the 2:1 transmission a test. I spent all day last Friday in the ATX. Before lunch we had 4 people and it surfed decent. Full ballast which I was told is 2,750lbs the boat did 31mph with the 400 engine 2:1 transmission and 4 people in the boat. I cut the throttle when it hit 31. I’m guessing it would have done 35+. I live in the Denver area so I can relate to your altitude concerns. After lunch we took a crew of 7 out. Wave was amazing! I didn’t do the speed test again but it didn’t struggle at all the entire day.

As for storage I can say for certain the ATX has more than the RZX2. They removed the “floor” that makes the ballast subfloor on the RZX2. So as mentioned earlier you get much deeper storage everywhere you don’t have a ballast bag. I was honestly blown away by the ATX and really liked the interior more than I thought I would. I sat down with my dealer and spec’d one out. In the end it was too tall to fit in my garage which is a dealbreaker.

Ps, I built one real quick on the builder, was kinda bummed that I didn’t get a price there and then, but I’ll have a little better of an idea, when I hear back from whoever will respond. For the right price, I could take a chance on something with 5 years of warranty.


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[UNSTUCK]

Zack, you should head to Utah for a test drive. Not too far of a drive and you could easily test any boat at Jordanelle, which is the same elevation as Tahoe. Germaine Marine would be happy to take you there.

I'm thinking pretty hard about this boat. Sounds like it could meet all my needs and keep my family boating (which we have been thinking about getting out of all together).

[Zackdogg]

Looks like it’s actually a little higher, which would be enough to convince me. I’d have to see some pricing on a 24’ and I think I’d still prefer the 575, but I could sway on that with a real convincing test drive.

Or buy that sucker, drag it to Tahoe, and I’ll give you the grand tour!!

I am more interested than I was 24 hours ago, either way.


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